billybronco1
Well-known member
Key off 6 volts both sides of the coil.
Key on points shorted six volts on neg side of coil and .65 on the pos side.
Key on points shorted six volts on neg side of coil and .65 on the pos side.
Car died will not start
- Thread starter billybronco1
- Start date
Dick Steinkamp
Well-known member
If "key off" you have 6V on both sides of the coil, then either the ignition switch is bad and still making contact in the off position, in which case you would not be able to turn the car off with the key, OR (hopefully) your have a typo in your post and you really meant "Key ON 6 volts both sides of the coil".
billybronco1
Well-known member
Yep 6 volts on both sides of the coil with key off even the switch disconnected.
Mitch//pa
BANNED
That's normal
billybronco1
Well-known member
Okay guys something no one seemed to think of is a bad condenser - all fixed this was a good learning experience - thanks.
Tom Wesenberg
Well-known member
Normally changing the condenser is the first thing mentioned.
I've never had a coil or condenser fail on my own cars, but those are two spare parts I carry under the seat, as well as a spare fan belt.
billybronco1
Well-known member
Ya know I'm not 100% confident its only the condenser - came out after lunch it would not start again thought I burnt out the new condenser so I tried a random one off a boat motor and got spark back. Put the original one in and and no spark. Put the second one back and got spark again. Mean while I was shorting out the key switch, now it runs fine either way jumped key switch or use the key switch. Seems strange I could have a bad condenser and a flaky switch at the seem time, but weird things can happen. If it dies again I will first jump the ignition switch.
Tom Wesenberg
Well-known member
Have you made sure all your connections are clean and tight?
Also a common problem area is the lower plate wire terminal on the points post. That terminal must be located correctly and bent up against the nut, or it can rub on the spring and ground out.
Also a common problem area is the lower plate wire terminal on the points post. That terminal must be located correctly and bent up against the nut, or it can rub on the spring and ground out.
billybronco1
Well-known member
Everything is tight and clean best I can tell, not sure I follow you 100% on the point plate shorting out, all looks good to me.
Tom Wesenberg
Well-known member
The bottom plate has a short multistrand very flexible wire with a flag terminal that is fastened to the bottom of the points pivot/mounting stud. You must tighten the nut then bend the flag terminal against the nut. If you don't bend the terminal up against the nut then it might stick out enough to touch the spring and short to ground.
jthomas6
Senior Member
And will drive you batty chasing the problem. Maybe when you move the spark advance a little - it's OK. Go to half advance - dead. Back off a little - OK. Go to 0 advance - dead. It all depends on just where in the circular advance cycle it chooses to short out - then maybe even vibration helps with more intermittent shorts.
Hook
Senior Member
I just finished chasing something similar for about a year. don't want to bore you with the sad story, but I kept finding things wrong, assume I had found the problem but had not. Each fix made it slightly better, but didn't solve the overall problem.
So, are you using an aftermarket "look alike" pop out switch?
If it is not the original pop out type switch, what type of wire do you have going to the distributor? Mine was small metal sheath with wire in it that would screw in to the distributor.
Is the lower plate in the distributor original? Points original? Upper plate original? Wire from coil to distributor original?
Let me know and I'll share my experience with problems found in most. Mine now starts so quickly I can't believe it.
So, are you using an aftermarket "look alike" pop out switch?
If it is not the original pop out type switch, what type of wire do you have going to the distributor? Mine was small metal sheath with wire in it that would screw in to the distributor.
Is the lower plate in the distributor original? Points original? Upper plate original? Wire from coil to distributor original?
Let me know and I'll share my experience with problems found in most. Mine now starts so quickly I can't believe it.
billybronco1
Well-known member
I would assume mine is a bunch of random parts from here and there I doubt much is original ford stock.
saintjoelarry
Junior Member
Just now catching up on the forum, and saw your post. I think you've received very good advice ...although was also surprised that replacing the condenser was not the very first thing mentioned. Especially with the heat. You can even buy a heat shield to place below your distributor to protect the condenser from the heat.
Definitely check the wiring underneath the points plate. The wire itself could be frayed, as was the one on my 30 Model A. When I would advance the timing after it started, it would stall. Easy fix, simply remove the points cam nut, push down on the points plate (is held in place by spring tension, turn counterclockwise (or was it clockwise?) and the plate pops right out. Check the wire and the fitting at the end.
I also agree with whomever said coils rarely go bad. I get most of my old car advise from my 75 year old father, who was a farmer and grease monkey for much of his life. When I suggested I had a bad coil on my Model A, he said he rarely, if ever, had seen a coil go bad on a 6 volt car or tractor. Not that it can't, just that he couldn't recall seeing it in 60+ years of working on the things.
One more thing to add though is just the wiring in general. If your wiring has not been replaced, then the insulation is definitely flaking off. Go out and buy the replacement wiring from a place like Snyder's. They are cut to length, have correct ends, and correct cloth coating. It will save you a lot of trouble in the long run just to replace them now.
Definitely check the wiring underneath the points plate. The wire itself could be frayed, as was the one on my 30 Model A. When I would advance the timing after it started, it would stall. Easy fix, simply remove the points cam nut, push down on the points plate (is held in place by spring tension, turn counterclockwise (or was it clockwise?) and the plate pops right out. Check the wire and the fitting at the end.
I also agree with whomever said coils rarely go bad. I get most of my old car advise from my 75 year old father, who was a farmer and grease monkey for much of his life. When I suggested I had a bad coil on my Model A, he said he rarely, if ever, had seen a coil go bad on a 6 volt car or tractor. Not that it can't, just that he couldn't recall seeing it in 60+ years of working on the things.
One more thing to add though is just the wiring in general. If your wiring has not been replaced, then the insulation is definitely flaking off. Go out and buy the replacement wiring from a place like Snyder's. They are cut to length, have correct ends, and correct cloth coating. It will save you a lot of trouble in the long run just to replace them now.
Dick Steinkamp
Well-known member
eagle
Well-known member
I'm not saying this to hurt any feeling just giving my input. I troubleshoot equipment for a living and have for almost 30 years. The WORST kind of repair is when someone just starts replacing parts without diagnosing the problem precisely first. Never ever replace a part until you have verified it is bad. Of course, every rule has an exception, sometimes when you have an intermittent issue that will not occur when you are able to diagnose, then some careful replacement of parts is necessary. However, very important to test the new part too. Assuming a part is good just because its new can REALLY get you in a pickle! Another thing that can get you into some deep waters... "I had a similar problem and did this and it fixed it" Just because a particular fix worked on his car usually will be a wild goose chase on yours. Get yourself a GOOD meter, a detailed wiring diagram, and figure it out. You will be much further ahead in the long run, and you will learn your system so next time around it will be easier. Just my two cents.
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Marshall57
Senior Member
I respect you ideas, but disagree. I think that changing out a distributer on a car for a known good one is the best way to start. I find that the search can range from gas to spark and everywhere in between, but most of the problems I find are in the distributer. I have a few that I have rebuilt and have run for a while that are known good. It has saved lots of time when I'm looking at a car and they are insisting that it is a carburetor, and I'm just as sure it isn't a fuel problem. If you change it out and the problem goes away, it will narrow your search for the problem, if it doesn't it will also let you concentrate on the others problems you might have.
I also do this with fuel. I hang a small tank on the radiator rods and bypass anything in the tank or fuel filter, or just bad gas. I also do this for the ignition, there is a bypass sold that is more of a factory hotwire, this takes the complete switch out of the equation.
Gremlins are sometimes hard to ferret out, and elimination of whole problem areas can be of great help when the symptoms are all over the place.
Strangest one lately was on the trip to Loveland an exhaust clamp came loose and the muffler fell. Tried to wire it up and pull off into a stop we were making when it fell. The car would not run. Bolted up the muffler loosely and it just barley ran. Got it tight and it ran fine.
Talked to folks at the meet, and had to face palm when I was told that the engine must be grounding through the muffler and the answer was a ground strap.
I also do this with fuel. I hang a small tank on the radiator rods and bypass anything in the tank or fuel filter, or just bad gas. I also do this for the ignition, there is a bypass sold that is more of a factory hotwire, this takes the complete switch out of the equation.
Gremlins are sometimes hard to ferret out, and elimination of whole problem areas can be of great help when the symptoms are all over the place.
Strangest one lately was on the trip to Loveland an exhaust clamp came loose and the muffler fell. Tried to wire it up and pull off into a stop we were making when it fell. The car would not run. Bolted up the muffler loosely and it just barley ran. Got it tight and it ran fine.
Talked to folks at the meet, and had to face palm when I was told that the engine must be grounding through the muffler and the answer was a ground strap.
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Hook
Senior Member
If you have one of these cables running into the distributor, check to make sure the wire inside the metal housing isn't shorted to ground. Mine was shorting in three different spots causing poor starting and intermittent shut down. I used an ohm meter to check it. The new ones are made better and won't cause the shorting over time.
