Can't get spark!

[Terry NJ]

Thanks Joe, But it's original distributor. But I dug a good looking distributor out of the pile (It pays to hoard) and I'm going to clean it up, paint it, and install it, The shaft is like new and the bushings are tight. I've frustrated myself fitutzin with the old one long enough.
Terry

I have had problems with some repo distributor bodies. When you put them on and clamp them with the top plate. It pushes down on the bottom plate advance, retard arm which them causes the point open to the point they will not close. If this is the case you will need to deepen the slot on the distributor body.

 

[1crosscut]

The easy button for setting your timing is to use the NuRex wrench available at all the suppliers. Not a big dollar item and it really makes setting timing very, very simple.

 

[Terry NJ]

Thanks Hoof! One of the best I've seen.
Terry

I found this very helpful for timing.
http://modelabasics.com/Ignition.htm
I had zero knowledge of model A ignition and successfully timed my A using that site.
CHAZ

 

[Terry NJ]

Thanks C.C., But I saw the value of this simple tool and bought one a long time ago.
Terry

The easy button for setting your timing is to use the NuRex wrench available at all the suppliers. Not a big dollar item and it really makes setting timing very, very simple.

 

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Side note: If using the ROUND type cap, make sure the advance lever slot is the same width as your old cap.
Anyone know what the "original" width was?
Bill W.

 

[larrys40]

I have had problems with some repo distributor bodies. When you put them on and clamp them with the top plate. It pushes down on the bottom plate advance, retard arm which them causes the point open to the point they will not close. If this is the case you will need to deepen the slot on the distributor body.

Terry ,
Two things . Just last week I was working on one and had a rebuilt distributor with a new repro lower plate which when assembled and doing the static spark test produced a good spark. Went to start next day and no spark.
Problem was the lower plate contact ( condenser screws into it) was loose at the two rivits . In putting a meter on it I could see the issue. If course you can tighten the rivits but in review of it I felt it had too much potential to be an issue again and chose to replace.
Replaced with a better lower plate . Had another new one that I checked as well and it too was loose so looks like Houston has problem.

Secondly from the post included above if the upper arm is hitting thr body and torquing it you probably have a poorly made upper plate or possibly have and original ford "B" service replacement body that has the step in the slot whereby if that's the case the step needs to be ground down to deepen the slot .
A commonly missed item in those particular caps if use on an A distributor casting .
Larry Shepard

 

[H. L. Chauvin]

Hi Tiny,

Per reply #16, in mentioning:

" Also, she's way advanced. I'm getting tired! Which way to retard the spark CW or CCW! How do I know it's advanced? "

This response is so typical from so many Model A owners after one reads the six gillion Forum & internet ways on how to time a Model A.

If you would like peace of mind, "after" you time a Model A, just take your time, relax, and try verifying accurate timing like this.

1. Remove coil wire, distributor body & cap, and rotor & verify point adjustment; 0.020 will work well.

2. Reinstall rotor, distributor body & cap, & coil wire.

3. Remove all four (4) plugs so engine turns easily with hand crank.

4. Retard spark spark lever all the way up and turn ignition switch "ON".

5. Lay spark plug no. 1 on its side for electrical "grounding" and connect it to the distributor so it can later fire.

6. Remove timing pin, reverse it, and apply pressure while slowly turning the crank.

7. When the timing pin slips "in", spark plug no. 1, (closest to the radiator), will fire "if" and only "if" you timed it correctly in the first place.


Forget about the different ways to measure rotor orientation, 6V or 12V timing lights, vee cuts already marked on pulley, test lamps for points open & closed, starting & listening to the engine's sweet spots, CC & CW distributor cam, forward & backward loose play in distributor shaft, and who cares if your cat pee'd in your radiator, or even if you have a cat ...... just go to the source ...... i.e., no. 1 spark plug firing in the combustion chamber when the timing pin slips in.

Hopes this helps ..... just ask any full time, experienced mechanic what do they discover when they accurately check other Model A owner's sworn "accurate" timing ...... about as accurate as conducting a pregnancy test with a lie detector.

 

[ryanheacox]

I agree with Katy. Mine started running on 2 cylinders one day when I was out for a drive once. Turned out that the rubbing block on the points had worn down enough that the points were opening just barely enough to fire two of the cylinders but not the other two. A new dist. cam and adjusted points and I was all set. It was a pain to try diagnosing on the side of the road though

 

[msmaron]

Here are the points I changed to because of the exact problems with ryanheacox mentioned. The Repop points from the dealers are cheap and wear out.. I have never had issues with these..

 

[katy]

Mine started running on 2 cylinders one day when I was out for a drive once. Turned out that the rubbing block on the points had worn down enough that the points were opening just barely enough to fire two of the cylinders but not the other two.

I had a similar situation back in the '50's. Only in my case it was only running on 1 cylinder. In that instance, I'm sure it was due to lack of maintenance.

 

[midgetracer]

I saw the same thing as ryanh. My friend called me, he had spark at only two cylinders. He had changed distributor caps and rotor. I went over, and first thing I noticed was that the points were not opening. I reset the points and she fired up and ran beautiful. Simple fix for a frustrated guy.

 

[Terry NJ]

Update! Today I cleaned an old distributor (Original points). Having the dist. on the bench, I decided to set the points with a indicator which I did. Here's what I found, the three lobes of the dist cam were equal, but the fourth lobe was high by .003. Whether or not this'll affect the running of the engine or not is yet to be seen. Tomorrow I will install the distributor. The shaft and cam seem new, Chinese? Hard to say!
Terry

 

[Terry NJ]

Another Update! Yesterday I pulled the Dist. and found some interesting things. First, I didn't realize it but I was operating (Or trying to) with two condensers, one good, one bad. How much this contributed to the problem I can't say, but it ain't right! So I rebuilt the old dist. The new style plate went out and was replaced with a old style plate and the points were set with an indicator and a feeler gauge. I tried to start it last night and I 've got the timing off again, but it wanted to start. Retime it and I think it will go.
Terry

 

[Mitch//pa]

Two condensers???? Don't think so. The new style utilizes a condenser on the plate.. Usually a dummy one (sometimes hollowed out) is still in place in the dist body to simulate the original style.(proper looks). ..

 

[H. L. Chauvin]

Hi Terry,

And ..................... "I 've got the timing off again,"

Are you ignoring the accurate #27 timing check ...... or are you reading the other 8 million methods written on timing that gets so many Model A owners confused when conducting their simple pregnancy tests?

 

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Hi Terry,

And ..................... "I 've got the timing off again,"

Are you ignoring the accurate #27 timing check ...... or are you reading the other 8 million methods written on timing that gets so many Model A owners confused when conducting their simple pregnancy tests?

I saw DNA test kits offered, are they for PEOPLE/DOGS/MODEL A's???
Bill Puzzled?

 

[H. L. Chauvin]

Hi Bill,

Maybe this is why so many Model A owners are deathly afraid of these new DNA test kits you recently saw offered ...............

Some may be afraid to find they are kin to the Chevrolet Family in lieu of the Fords ???????

 

[Terry NJ]

Mitch, I don't even want to try to go there! Maybe it was something I did while not being 100% aware (I take painkillers) I know that it happened a long while ago, cause I haven't worked on that dist in a while (Years) But the dist. plate had two condensers in it new type on the plate and old type on the bottom. All hooked up and ready to go, It was no dummy! Possibly it had no effect since my condenser tester said it was bad. Anyway I straightened everything on the plate, out.New cam, new condenser. almost new points. I just have to retime it and I think she'll start.
Terry

Two condensers???? Don't think so. The new style utilizes a condenser on the plate.. Usually a dummy one (sometimes hollowed out) is still in place in the dist body to simulate the original style.(proper looks). ..

 

[Terry NJ]

No, I'm not ignoring it! It's just that part about "Turns easily with the plugs out"! This Fykin engine doesn't turn easily nohow! It's my new engine from Schwalms and it's tighter than a clam's ********, and that's water tight! My new engine and "easily" don't go together. Point is that it takes two hands on the crank to move it and my third hand is busy so I can't feel around with Mr Timing pin. So it takes me awhile to get it into position.What usually happens is the I get close and I try rocking the crankshaft back and forth and missing the hole with the pin. This can be frustrating as heck so I try to use Kentucky windage on the position of the rotor and that's not always good.
Terry

Hi Terry,

And ..................... "I 've got the timing off again,"

Are you ignoring the accurate #27 timing check ...... or are you reading the other 8 million methods written on timing that gets so many Model A owners confused when conducting their simple pregnancy tests?

 

[H. L. Chauvin]

Hi Terry,

My heart really goes out to you, because I never had a "Clam" Engine.

"Clam" engines, in my opinion, are those always rebuilt by the ******** Clams you emphatically described ....... and "tight" fitting Babbitt, often recommended by Model A Clam Guys, acts just like the Tight Clam's ******** you described ..... oil tight ..... hence, no initial oil ...... oil not only lubricates Babbitt ...... it also serves as a most important coolant for a very soft metal.

With nothing but compassion and respect, "The Restorer" just published a "Tip" with a photo on how to attach a rubber band on a Model A reversed timing pin where one does not have to "press" on the timing pin ..... with this set up you can observe when the timing pin slips in, while having both hands on your "Clam".

And please don't let your neighbors know you tried to fix your car with a rubber band ........ news like this always travels faster than we Model A owners would ever like ....... for some reason, some of our neighbors already think we Model A people are a bit strange.

I'm sure so many of us have always wished we lived next door where we could come over to help get it going again.