cams

1930artdeco

1930artdeco

Well-known member
More research time....I just read a thread that had to do with engines and cams-sorry can't find it now. But I believe it was Larry Brumfield who was talking about different cams. My question is this: Which one is best for the following application. I am rebuilding my engine with a 5.5 head, counter balanced crank and shaved flywheel basically a stock engine. Nothing special driving wise, I just want a little bit more power as I have a sedan. I will also be installing a Mitchell OD eventually.

I won't be using an A cam and am deciding between a B cam or a Bill Snipe cam (spelling?). What are the differences? I know a B cam has the heel ground down more than an A cam. What about Bill's cams-get a regrind or go for a new one?

Mike
 
If you are staying with the stock, or a model B carb, stay with the B cam. Original B cams came with 3 different lifts, .302" .315" and .339", also a .315/.339 combination. The higher lift cams would be better. I made a master from one of the .339 cams and rounded the nose a little for longevity so it now has .325" lift, I call it a C grind. Cams with more duration help at higher RPM's but would hurt you at lower RPM's, especially in a heavy car like the sedan.
 
1930artdeco said:
More research time....I just read a thread that had to do with engines and cams-sorry can't find it now. But I believe it was Larry Brumfield who was talking about different cams. My question is this: Which one is best for the following application. I am rebuilding my engine with a 5.5 head, counter balanced crank and shaved flywheel basically a stock engine. Nothing special driving wise, I just want a little bit more power as I have a sedan. I will also be installing a Mitchell OD eventually.

I won't be using an A cam and am deciding between a B cam or a Bill Snipe cam (spelling?). What are the differences? I know a B cam has the heel ground down more than an A cam. What about Bill's cams-get a regrind or go for a new one?

Mike,
Regarding spelling(?): A 'snipe' is what you hunt with a burlap bag/gunny sack..at night!
Wheras a 'Stipe' as in Bill...you hunt when looking for MADE IN AMERICA quality model A/B equipment:rolleyes:!!
As to "new or regrind cam", I learned from another barner..something that the average guy would not think of when considering cam purchase. That is, that a NEW cam has a hardened surface that is important to longevity, whereas a reground cam may have had that quality surface ground off. Merry Christmas to all of youse!
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Hey Hardtimes, You need to brush up on your hunting knowledge. You hunt snipe with a gun not a bag. LOL Here's some info. for you from the Kansas fish and game website.
Snipe



To buy your HIP Stamp, CLICK HERE.
Wilson’s snipe (formerly known as common snipe) is a large shorebird (about 10.5 inches long, 3.7 oz) and one of two shorebird species that can be hunted in Kansas. Like other shorebirds, this species prefers to forage on mudflats and in water less than three inches deep in wetlands and along shorelines. Unlike most other shorebirds, common snipe frequently feed at vegetated sites. They use their 2 to 3-inch long bill to probe into the mud for animal foods such as aquatic insect larvae and earthworms.
Snipe nest in Canada and the northern tier of U.S. states. They begin arriving in Kansas during late summer and can remain throughout the winter.
Cheyenne Bottoms and other shallow marshes are the primary snipe hunting areas in Kansas. Snipe hunting is physically challenging because hunters wade or slog through often mucky areas to flush snipe. Just getting off a shot is difficult at times because it’s hard to keep from falling down while swinging the gun in response to their erratic, fast flight. Many a shot is not taken because the hunter is off balance and doesn’t want to fall in the mud.
Snipe hunters need to be proficient in wetland bird identification to make sure they do not accidentally shoot similar-looking species that are protected. Yellowlegs (greater and lesser) and dowitchers (long-billed and short-billed) are the four species most similar in appearance and size to snipe. Color patterns, flight, and call are the best characteristics for distinguishing snipe from look-alike species.
Color - The two yellowlegs species have a white rump patch and the dowitchers have a white stripe that runs from the rump to the middle of the back. A snipe doesn’t have any white on its back.
Flight – Snipe fly in a zig-zag pattern and more powerfully than yellowlegs and dowitchers. Dowitchers and yellowlegs tend to fly in a straight line.
Call – Snipe tend to give a single-note call when flushed, while dowitchers and yellowlegs typically give multiple-note calls.
 
Pickupman said:
Hey Hardtimes, You need to brush up on your hunting knowledge. You hunt snipe with a gun not a bag. LOL Here's some info. for you from the Kansas fish and game website.
Snipe



To buy your HIP Stamp, CLICK HERE.
Wilson’s snipe (formerly known as common snipe) is a large shorebird (about 10.5 inches long, 3.7 oz) and one of two shorebird species that can be hunted in Kansas. Like other shorebirds, this species prefers to forage on mudflats and in water less than three inches deep in wetlands and along shorelines. Unlike most other shorebirds, common snipe frequently feed at vegetated sites. They use their 2 to 3-inch long bill to probe into the mud for animal foods such as aquatic insect larvae and earthworms.
Snipe nest in Canada and the northern tier of U.S. states. They begin arriving in Kansas during late summer and can remain throughout the winter.
Cheyenne Bottoms and other shallow marshes are the primary snipe hunting areas in Kansas. Snipe hunting is physically challenging because hunters wade or slog through often mucky areas to flush snipe. Just getting off a shot is difficult at times because it’s hard to keep from falling down while swinging the gun in response to their erratic, fast flight. Many a shot is not taken because the hunter is off balance and doesn’t want to fall in the mud.
Snipe hunters need to be proficient in wetland bird identification to make sure they do not accidentally shoot similar-looking species that are protected. Yellowlegs (greater and lesser) and dowitchers (long-billed and short-billed) are the four species most similar in appearance and size to snipe. Color patterns, flight, and call are the best characteristics for distinguishing snipe from look-alike species.
Color - The two yellowlegs species have a white rump patch and the dowitchers have a white stripe that runs from the rump to the middle of the back. A snipe doesn’t have any white on its back.
Flight – Snipe fly in a zig-zag pattern and more powerfully than yellowlegs and dowitchers. Dowitchers and yellowlegs tend to fly in a straight line.
Call – Snipe tend to give a single-note call when flushed, while dowitchers and yellowlegs typically give multiple-note calls.
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Pickupman,
LOL...not familiar with Kansas/ToeToe/Dorothy,etc..BUT
In Penna IT was done at night, with neophite, with burlap sack!
In Kalefurnea IT(grunion)was done at night...just because it's left coast version of make believe hunting excuse to go to the beach at night!
 
Where i come from you snipe hunt with a burlap bag,no light. Im with HARDTIMES on this one.Good old W.Va. RAY
 
Yes, I'm all familar with all the snipe jokes. Just thought I'd let you all know that there is really "snipe". Never been. Grew up in Kansas. Spent most my time hunting pheasants.
 
“Jim Brierley
If you are staying with the stock, or a model B carb, stay with the B cam. Original B cams came with 3 different lifts, .302" .315" and .339", also a .315/.339 combination. The higher lift cams would be better. I made a master from one of the .339 cams and rounded the nose a little for longevity so it now has .325" lift, I call it a C grind. Cams with more duration help at higher RPM's but would hurt you at lower RPM's, especially in a heavy car like the sedan.”
Click to expand...



Hi Jim,
I don’t post here very often but I have noticed that you talk about the Model B cam having several grind profiles and I question that only because I spoke to George DeAnglis on that subject years ago and he told me Ford only had one B cam and he also works at the Ford archives and sent me copies of both to A and B original drawings.
I would have to say if you have come across different profiles those where ether regrinds or after market cams from an out side source like Howards, Winfield, or maybe Isky but not Ford Motor Company’s.

Jim is correct in saying if you put too much duration in the cam you will lose that nice low end torque.
Reground cams may be a little softer as the grinding process goes deeper you start to break through the case hardness and exposing the softer core. Because of the low spring pressures we tend to get away with that.
A new cam has several advantages in that the lobes will not have broken through the case hardness, the bearings will be full size and you can get oversize bearing if I have that in stock and one other important thing is the distributor, oil pump drive gear will be new and tighter so back lash and ignition timing will be better.
For a heavy car I have and IB330 or improved B cam that has excellent low end torque, also works great with over drives.

Thanks

Bill Stipe,
 
DeAngelis knows his archives, he also is the one that says there is no such thing as a C crank, according to the records he is right but we all know there are differences. If you took a .302" lift B cam and ground it to .339" lift, it would be easy to spot the differences. So, would a new cam be better? Performance wise, no. Cost wise, yes. I've been doing about 50 cams per year and think I can recognise a re-grind when I see one.
 
Thanks Jim Brierley, its about time that a respected cam grinder spoke up about the performance value of a reground cam.

I don't have one of your cams, I do have one new old stock B cam and two of Bills reground super street Winfield 3/4 race cams with 317 lift. I am guessing that most B cams are 302 lift. The two 3/4 race Winfield regrind cams that I have out perform the new old stock B cam and have MUCH better low and mid range torque, or as I have said before they have WONDERFUL low and mid range power.
 
Jim,

I agree with you. A number of years ago I obtained a used original C cam, it had .329 lift on the exhaust lobes and .321 lift on the intake lobes. I have and old book that coveres A and B engines; it says in the B engine section to set intake valves at 11 to 13 cold, and exhaust at 18 to 21 cold. When I set the valves I set the exhaust at 18.

A few years ago here in Quincy one of our members obtained a low mileage Diamond block with a RF serial number (Richmond Ford), the cam was a C with .339 lift on the exhaust and .331 lift on the intakes ( we checked the cam using V blocks and a dial indicator); we set the valves at 14 on the intake and 18 on the exhaust.

Both of the above C cams were copper coated between the lobes and each had the fuel pump lobe.

Both of these engines were strong running, they also had lightened flywheels and standard pored main and rod bearings.

Just my observation over the years !!!!

Ron Rude
 
Thank you all for your input. You all have given me something to think over.

Jim Brierley-Just curious, what do you mean by '..So, would a new cam be better? Performance wise, no. Cost wise, yes...' Is there that much of a performance difference between a regrind and a new one? I understand that a regrind would be around $100 and I think a new one is $500 or so.

Thanks,

Mike
 
One other point that was not brought up here, is the fact that good cores to be sent for regrinding, are increasingly hard to find! Hence, no good core, no regrind! The IB 330's are an excellant choice, as this is a brand new cam, no core required. Bill Stipe does "Quality" work on all the parts he sells. His service is excellent as well!
 
Hi Jim I didn't mean any disrespect in my statement but I have been regrinding cams for 19 years come this summer and have never come across a B cam with fuel pump lobe and with .302 lift. The original A cam had .302 lift. If you have one of these cams I would really like to see it and do some measuring on it for a little research myself. Like I said it may be another suppler other then Ford. The Ford B cam has .334 cam lift on the intake and .341 on the exhaust.
And what Ron has experienced with the Diamond block is a Ford B cam that has wear on it loosing .002 to .003 lift. As far as calling it a C or B Cam, Crank or what ever that seems to be anyones preference, the 32 through 34 four cylinder had 3 cranks, 1 no counter weights, 1 press on counter weights, and 1 with counter weights forged on it, or as most call it the C crank.

My opinon no derespect intended.

Bill Stipe
 
No problem Bill, we both have respect for each other! I've seen both copper plated and non-copper plated B cams with .302" lift, maybe a little less because of wear. I'll check those that I have now and send it to if I have one.
As to Art Deco Mike, I have 3 B engines in street driven cars and 1 in a Bonneville lakester, the current blown gas record holder at 153.790. All have reground stock cams. Any power difference in a new vs. reground cam will depend on several things but, for instance, a reground cam to stock B specs vs. a new cam ground to stock specs the difference in power will be somewhere between zero and hardly any. My statement means is the power vs. performance worth the cost difference? To some, yes, to others, no. If you are going for a new cam, Bill Stipe is the guy to go to.
Merry Christmas to all!!!
 
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