California pcv ??
- Thread starter fast fredy
- Start date
fast fredy
Senior Member
So Kultulz on my engine I should be able to put a pcv valve in one of the valve covers, block off the original road draft and be good to go because the oil filler cap to air cleaner will supply the other half of the system (intake) .Which side valve cover would you recomend , front or rear , or it doesn't matter thanks Fred
KULTULZ
Well-known member
... NO ...Don't cut your rocker covers. It won't look right/correct if you are doing a restoration. Then you would have to fabricate a splash shield under the PCV VALVE inlet.
If it were mine, I would fine tune the kit that is on it. Otherwise you will have to adapt the later OEM design to it and that will include finding a later model valley cover.
KULTULZ
Well-known member
This photo shows a PCV retro-fit using a 4V and the 2V style vacuum source.
The trouble with using this vacuum source (initial design was for power brake/vacuum WS WIPER) only sources two intake runners for a vacuum signal (see below attached) and the vapors are not evenly distributed among all cylinders as does one using a carb space with nipple.
So, IMO whomever designed theis add-on system had his stuff in one neat little pile.
The trouble with using this vacuum source (initial design was for power brake/vacuum WS WIPER) only sources two intake runners for a vacuum signal (see below attached) and the vapors are not evenly distributed among all cylinders as does one using a carb space with nipple.
So, IMO whomever designed theis add-on system had his stuff in one neat little pile.
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fast fredy
Senior Member
Thanks I guess I'll have a good look at whats there and try to fine tune it to not leak oil Fred
KULTULZ
Well-known member
Now this is your car and you do what you want. My concern is you have a piece of unique history.
To me, the simplest method is to fix what you have.
You decide and then I will help you with it.
How do you use the car? Do you want it to remain original? It was built in CA?
To me, the simplest method is to fix what you have.
You decide and then I will help you with it.
How do you use the car? Do you want it to remain original? It was built in CA?
KULTULZ
Well-known member
Here is the same post on the other forum so one can see more than one opinion - http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Topic159033.aspx
blucar
Well-known member
Retro-fitting a PCV system to a pre smog engine is probably one of the most misunderstood subjects that comes up regularly on many of the old car forums.
When it comes to the pre- 63 Y-block engines, V8Coop pretty well hit the nail on the head with his #8 contribution, with one exception. The '57 T-Bird Y blocks had an open crankcase due to the fact that they were pre '63, that being the year that PCV's became mandatory on all new vehicles.
Some states, namely California passed a law in the late '60's, early '70's called NOX which was a nightmare of knee jerk emission controls that had to be retro-fitted to just about every vehicle on the road.
At the time I had a '57 T-Bird 312, I was very reluctant to cut holes in my T-Bird valve covers. I also had several trucks in my company, three of which were '64 Ford 292 Y-Block V8's. Looking the Ford trucks over the lights came on in my small brain, get a PCV system for a 292 Ford V8 truck, put it on my '57 312. Very simple, I removed the road draft tube from my Bird, installed the fitting shown in COOPs contribution, hooked everything up and took the car to the State Inspection Station, PASSED.
During the years since, I make it a habit to keep my eyes open for '63-64 F series 292's, I harvest the PCV systems and put them away for later use.
Last year I sent one of my Y-Block PCV systems down to Australia for one of the regular citizens here on The Barn for use on his Merc Y-Block.
Hmmmm? Just discovered that the pix V8COOP posted are copies of my pix.
When it comes to the pre- 63 Y-block engines, V8Coop pretty well hit the nail on the head with his #8 contribution, with one exception. The '57 T-Bird Y blocks had an open crankcase due to the fact that they were pre '63, that being the year that PCV's became mandatory on all new vehicles.
Some states, namely California passed a law in the late '60's, early '70's called NOX which was a nightmare of knee jerk emission controls that had to be retro-fitted to just about every vehicle on the road.
At the time I had a '57 T-Bird 312, I was very reluctant to cut holes in my T-Bird valve covers. I also had several trucks in my company, three of which were '64 Ford 292 Y-Block V8's. Looking the Ford trucks over the lights came on in my small brain, get a PCV system for a 292 Ford V8 truck, put it on my '57 312. Very simple, I removed the road draft tube from my Bird, installed the fitting shown in COOPs contribution, hooked everything up and took the car to the State Inspection Station, PASSED.
During the years since, I make it a habit to keep my eyes open for '63-64 F series 292's, I harvest the PCV systems and put them away for later use.
Last year I sent one of my Y-Block PCV systems down to Australia for one of the regular citizens here on The Barn for use on his Merc Y-Block.
Hmmmm? Just discovered that the pix V8COOP posted are copies of my pix.
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KULTULZ
Well-known member
Being discussed is mid-late fifties CA required systems, which was an add-on, not OEM and completely different in design.
PCV became a requirement for the CA 1961 model run and FED for the 1963 model run. Not all non-CA cars received PCV, only in areas that local emission law required it.
ATTACHED is an ILL of proper 4V PCV INSTALL -
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Patrick brophy
Senior Member
KULTULZ, in the next to last photo in the link you provided from the Yblocksforever.com forum Ted Eaton has a setup shown that is pretty simple,and it would be great for my purpose.
I have a 1957 Thunderbird 312. I have that valley pan, and a upgraded Holley carburetor that has the rear hose fitting as shown in that photo.
What I am completely in the dark about, is what is being used in the valley pan. It appears that is where the PCV valve is, but I have no idea how it is fastened.
Are you aware of anybody doing something similar? Is anyone selling something like this ?
I would really like to get rid of the down draft tube .It would free up some much needed real estate in the back of the motor, and it will make removal of the starter much easier in the future. (You how things happen.)
dmsfrr
Well-known member
The PVC valve is a friction fit into the grommet in the valley pan.
The top of the curved hose plugs into the spacer plate or carburetor.
More than one T-Bird parts supplier may sell these. You should be able to make a DIY copy for less.
Example...
https://www.classictbird.com/PCV-Conversion-Kit-57-4bbl-1-Per-car/productinfo/6758A/
.
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KULTULZ
Well-known member
As mentioned, it is simply a grommet put in place of the OEM adapter. Even with a specialty grommet, the system will draw oil/vapor fumes into the engine. The shield under that opening is a splash shield (oil being slung from the distributor drive) and will not prevent valve vapor ingestion.
You need (IMO) to study the OEM setup as that adapter raises the actual valve away from the misting and allows further cooling of the vapor so that it will tends to fall out of suspension and not be drawn into the manifold vacuum source.
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fast fredy
Senior Member
Kultulz ..I'm just waiting to put the car in the garage for the winter and put it in the air when I can leave it sit for a while Weather is not too bad here yet , so I might take it out again.. But to answer your question I'm pretty sure I'll leave what I have with some mods. As you suggest possibly move the actual pcv valve closer to the vacuum point and check out why it is leaking oil so badly , possibly a pin hole in housing or just need a better gasket / o ring set up .... will touch base when I have it apart thanks to you and all others that hive chimed in Fred
blucar
Well-known member
One item that many people overlook on the Y-Blocks is the crankcase breather on the lower left front of the engine.
Not all of the Y-Blocks had this breather, usually they were more common on the truck engines, 272/292 through '62. In many cases there was no breather canister, a flat plate was bolted over the opening. It has been my experience that the '63 and later 292's did not have an opening in lower left side of the block.
I currently have two '59 F100's in my 'stable', both of which are 4x's. I also have a '63 F100 4x w/292.
I have converted the '59 F-100's to the '63-64 PCV system, in lieu of removing the lower crankcase breather can I installed a block off plate between the can and the block, that way the engine appears to be stock, and the PCV system works like it should.
Throughout the years, I'm talking back to the early '70's I have found that the addition of a properly functioning PCV system on the Y-Blocks and pre '63 SBC's pretty well eliminates oil seepage from an engine due to the fact that crankcase pressure is eleminated.
The one thing that you have to make sure of when you add a PCV to an engine that did not come with one is that the port where the PCV is installed, be it a valley cover or a valve cover MUST HAVE A BAFFLE, without a baffle prior to the PCV the vacuum will suck oil into the line, causing oil consumption.
I would be very suspect of a rubber grommet in the valley cover being used with a PCV plugged into it and no provisions for a baffle.
Not all of the Y-Blocks had this breather, usually they were more common on the truck engines, 272/292 through '62. In many cases there was no breather canister, a flat plate was bolted over the opening. It has been my experience that the '63 and later 292's did not have an opening in lower left side of the block.
I currently have two '59 F100's in my 'stable', both of which are 4x's. I also have a '63 F100 4x w/292.
I have converted the '59 F-100's to the '63-64 PCV system, in lieu of removing the lower crankcase breather can I installed a block off plate between the can and the block, that way the engine appears to be stock, and the PCV system works like it should.
Throughout the years, I'm talking back to the early '70's I have found that the addition of a properly functioning PCV system on the Y-Blocks and pre '63 SBC's pretty well eliminates oil seepage from an engine due to the fact that crankcase pressure is eleminated.
The one thing that you have to make sure of when you add a PCV to an engine that did not come with one is that the port where the PCV is installed, be it a valley cover or a valve cover MUST HAVE A BAFFLE, without a baffle prior to the PCV the vacuum will suck oil into the line, causing oil consumption.
I would be very suspect of a rubber grommet in the valley cover being used with a PCV plugged into it and no provisions for a baffle.
KULTULZ
Well-known member
Glad it hit on somebody. But the fact is I was that way even before I stepped off the bus at reception.
KULTULZ
Well-known member
I am in deep anticipation as to when this system is torn down.
What I particularly want to know is exactly where the vacuum source fitting is located in relation to the filter/separator in the canister.
What I particularly want to know is exactly where the vacuum source fitting is located in relation to the filter/separator in the canister.
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KULTULZ
Well-known member
The system being discussed is a kit from FORD that was used until the 1961 model year, when the OEM SYSTEM was installed on CA cars.
I have just found another kit (just PN - no details) of a kit released for the 1961/62 model years, a$$uming it was a retro-fit for anything other than a CA car.
NY became one of the first after CA requiring PCV.
I have just found another kit (just PN - no details) of a kit released for the 1961/62 model years, a$$uming it was a retro-fit for anything other than a CA car.
NY became one of the first after CA requiring PCV.
fast fredy
Senior Member
Well got my car in the garage so back at it .. Here are some photos of exactly what I have The pcv valve sucks in the filtered area othe unit . The filter seems a bit oily but I guess thats to be expected in that area . When I took the canister off , about a cup of oil ran out . I wouldn't think there should be that much acumulation there, but maybe the drain back tube is partially plugged . There was no oil leaking where the unit bolts to the block. It looks like possibly the bracket/bolt that holds the canister down onto the seal needs to be tweeked a bit so that when the canister sits down evenly on the seal the bolt hole lines up . if not the canister will have uneven sealing around the canister . I think that is where my problem lies. The pcv itself seamed a bit gummed up so I sprayed it up and seems OK now .I have some reservations about this location and proximity to oil but I imagine there would be less concern if the oil drains back like it should.I would like to keep the system for nostalga so I will give it one more kick at the can before changing it .... Fred