buying a model A sight unseen

my personal opinion on this matter is i would not trust anyone but myself to check out a car long distance. i have dealt with many customers buying cars off ebay etc, paying a certified dude to evaluate it then having it shipped to my shop for going over. i can honestly say there has not been one without many surprises and disappointments. expensive or cheap my butt would be on a plane, getting a rental and hotel room, if i make a mistake on the evaluation let it be me. i am in no way slighting anyone that offers their help and expertise to assist, just be aware of the consequences. also if you ship it on an open carrier thats a whole other can of worms.
now if you do not have the ability and skill to do your own evaluation then you are at the mercy of others.
i wish you luck

From my recent personal experiences with this very subject. Get on the darn plane, find a couple of MARC or MAFCA members to look at the car with you. Make sure you look at other A's before you by this one. There is no other way for a newbie. Otherwise, IMHO you'll lose a significant portion of your purchase price.
 
my personal opinion on this matter is i would not trust anyone but myself to check out a car long distance. i have dealt with many customers buying cars off ebay etc, paying a certified dude to evaluate it then having it shipped to my shop for going over. i can honestly say there has not been one without many surprises and disappointments. expensive or cheap my butt would be on a plane, getting a rental and hotel room, if i make a mistake on the evaluation let it be me. i am in no way slighting anyone that offers their help and expertise to assist, just be aware of the consequences. also if you ship it on an open carrier thats a whole other can of worms.
now if you do not have the ability and skill to do your own evaluation then you are at the mercy of others.
i wish you luck

Ok Mitch what are the pitfalls of useing an open Carrier? Obviously not good for a $26,000 car but how about a scruffy runner .
John Cochran
 
I bought a 1930 tudor sixties style build last painted in 1969 . The top canvas ripped down the middle on the trip here, and in the daylight I was at first disappointed some in the paint/body compared to the pics. Ive since driven the car, and am very happy with it even with the flaws. And after adding up all the receipts it was over 26k He had in it. Transporter guy gave me back $200 for the top damage, and will be learning how to replace it this weekend. On my 1929 ,he took pics of every flaw and no surprises when it was delivered. I love both my sedans ,so id say if he takes good pics and has good descriptions and its your dream car go for it. Roll the dice, toss a coin, tell him you know where he lives and have several fire arms and have stopped taking your meds. If your buying to resale Id go look at it in person. Good luck!
 
Some of these thoughts are quite amusing to read as I think about people's perspective. Personally I think the bottom line is just like was mentioned in one of the first couple of posts where you research the seller too.

For me I have an advantage here as I know who it is and his background, so his reputation means a lot to me in a transaction of this level. The seller is Guy Zaninovich, who some will recognize him as a former Ford Mtr. Company special projects employee who headed up the Model T-100 project. In the collector car world he is also very savvy on knowing the 'right people' to find good quality collector cars of all marques that he can place back in to circulation. With that said, I will be honest that several years ago I purchased something from Guy that was not what I was expecting. We negotiated and he made good on the transaction, --which I think speaks volumes for someone's character.


I guess to touch on what I find is amusing is the fact that IF this very vehicle was YOURS, just how much would you be advertising it for? :o Is the perceived value difference because you don't own it?? :eek: The price is VERY fair to the individual who is seeking a true 'survivor-type' automobile. Also explain just how often these vehicles come up on the market? What are the percentages of these 'survivor cars' vs. how many have been (incorrectly or authentically??) restored. For me, if I were looking for a Model-A Victoria to restore to exacting standards, this is the very type of vehicle to start with. I will explain my reasoning.

To many, this bodystyle alone is just as desirable as a 68C, 180A, or 400A, ...and WAY more desirable than a Coupe or Tudor to most. The next is the time-savings this vehicle has to offer to its' owner. While Guy did not state the mileage (that I can see), it would seem plausible that many items really would not need to be rebuilt to be back to within factory specifications because of little wear. I doubt the window regulators nor the door latches would need restoring other than cleaning and re-detailing. The wood in the car would/should be excellent either as-is, -or a perfect specimen to copy and replace with a new piece that could easily be made to exacting standards.

Moving to the chassis, here is a vehicle that you could dismantle the rear end, clean & inspect everything, and reassemble for very few $$ that would likely be the same as a freshly rebuilt one with new repro. parts. Which do you feel is better?? The same mindset can be said for the transmission that would have all original gears with no detectable wear. The money savings in those two areas alone is worth how much?

I say all of that to say it is my opinion that a hobbyist with limited tools and/or limited craftsman skills could easily turn out a top-quality restoration simply because there would not be any major sheetmetal fabrication or metal straightening to do, and everything is there. Think what it costs to have stainless steel professionally restored! I doubt this car has a wavy grille shell, nor dented hub caps or light buckets, ...therefore it would be easy for a home hobbyist with a small buffer to achieve very nice results with this car's parts. How about time straightening & bodyworking worn wheels? Do you want to have an interior that is correct to exacting standards? This one is the perfect example to pattern off of! Take measurements and detailed pictures, then order the piece goods (fabric) to make it yourself or have it sewn locally.

I could go on and on but I feel most people do not take the time to factor in the length of time and the costs associated with finding suitable replacement parts only to struggle to make them fit, --or the time necessary to research how a component is to be assembled. Add to the price of this car a good quality digital camera, and you will be $10k-$20k ahead on a top-level restoration of this car vs. a $10k 'bucket' that needs everything restored.
 
Now I'm confused. :eek:

I thought this was a very nice original car that should NOT be restored. :confused:

Nice original survivors are my favorite. :)
 
Now I'm confused. :eek:

I thought this was a very nice original car that should NOT be restored. :confused:

Nice original survivors are my favorite. :)

Hey Tom,
Yeah, what's going on here:eek: ? As usual, this thread has taken more twists/turns than my 18 foot boa :D !!
Original car is what this thread WAS about, IMO. And, very nice original is also my favorite. If anyone buys a 26K antique car due to and because of its originality...then starts to update/improve on that originality...holy smoke ! There are probably a million restored/brilliant models of A , including Victorias, that would be in the 26K buying range ! What happened here?

BTW...Guys...read the mans input; He is a DECADES old owner of Model A..not a neophyte ! NOT a BEGINNER NOR FIRST TIME OWNER,eh !
 
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Now I'm confused. :eek:

I thought this was a very nice original car that should NOT be restored. :confused:

Nice original survivors are my favorite. :)

Hey Tom,
Yeah, what's going on here:eek: ? As usual, this thread has taken more twists/turns than my 18 foot boa :D !!
Original car is what this thread WAS about, IMO. And, very nice original is also my favorite. If anyone buys a 26K antique car due to and because of its originality...then starts to update/improve on that originality...holy smoke ! There are probably a million restored/brilliant models of A , including Victorias, that would be in the 26K buying range ! What happened here?

i concur this car has some upgrades mentioned such as an xtra wiper, repainted fenders added tail light other optional wiring in the pics. its to original for that much mooola, i would rather have a nicely restored car without a worn /stinky interior and exterior bruises from 85 years of mostly storage by different owners. i would save up another 10k or so to obtain that
i wonder how much of the 26k goes towards the preservation plaque
its not my cup of tea
 
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Some of these thoughts are quite amusing to read as I think about people's perspective. Personally I think the bottom line is just like was mentioned in one of the first couple of posts where you research the seller too.

For me I have an advantage here as I know who it is and his background, so his reputation means a lot to me in a transaction of this level. The seller is Guy Zaninovich, who some will recognize him as a former Ford Mtr. Company special projects employee who headed up the Model T-100 project. In the collector car world he is also very savvy on knowing the 'right people' to find good quality collector cars of all marques that he can place back in to circulation. With that said, I will be honest that several years ago I purchased something from Guy that was not what I was expecting. We negotiated and he made good on the transaction, --which I think speaks volumes for someone's character.


I guess to touch on what I find is amusing is the fact that IF this very vehicle was YOURS, just how much would you be advertising it for? :o Is the perceived value difference because you don't own it?? :eek: The price is VERY fair to the individual who is seeking a true 'survivor-type' automobile. Also explain just how often these vehicles come up on the market? What are the percentages of these 'survivor cars' vs. how many have been (incorrectly or authentically??) restored. For me, if I were looking for a Model-A Victoria to restore to exacting standards, this is the very type of vehicle to start with. I will explain my reasoning.

To many, this bodystyle alone is just as desirable as a 68C, 180A, or 400A, ...and WAY more desirable than a Coupe or Tudor to most. The next is the time-savings this vehicle has to offer to its' owner. While Guy did not state the mileage (that I can see), it would seem plausible that many items really would not need to be rebuilt to be back to within factory specifications because of little wear. I doubt the window regulators nor the door latches would need restoring other than cleaning and re-detailing. The wood in the car would/should be excellent either as-is, -or a perfect specimen to copy and replace with a new piece that could easily be made to exacting standards.

Moving to the chassis, here is a vehicle that you could dismantle the rear end, clean & inspect everything, and reassemble for very few $$ that would likely be the same as a freshly rebuilt one with new repro. parts. Which do you feel is better?? The same mindset can be said for the transmission that would have all original gears with no detectable wear. The money savings in those two areas alone is worth how much?

I say all of that to say it is my opinion that a hobbyist with limited tools and/or limited craftsman skills could easily turn out a top-quality restoration simply because there would not be any major sheetmetal fabrication or metal straightening to do, and everything is there. Think what it costs to have stainless steel professionally restored! I doubt this car has a wavy grille shell, nor dented hub caps or light buckets, ...therefore it would be easy for a home hobbyist with a small buffer to achieve very nice results with this car's parts. How about time straightening & bodyworking worn wheels? Do you want to have an interior that is correct to exacting standards? This one is the perfect example to pattern off of! Take measurements and detailed pictures, then order the piece goods (fabric) to make it yourself or have it sewn locally.

I could go on and on but I feel most people do not take the time to factor in the length of time and the costs associated with finding suitable replacement parts only to struggle to make them fit, --or the time necessary to research how a component is to be assembled. Add to the price of this car a good quality digital camera, and you will be $10k-$20k ahead on a top-level restoration of this car vs. a $10k 'bucket' that needs everything restored.

Hey Tom,
Yeah, what's going on here:eek: ? As usual, this thread has taken more twists/turns than my 18 foot boa :D !!
Original car is what this thread WAS about, IMO. And, very nice original is also my favorite. If anyone buys a 26K antique car due to and because of its originality...then starts to update/improve on that originality...holy smoke ! There are probably a million restored/brilliant models of A , including Victorias, that would be in the 26K buying range ! What happened here?

BTW...Guys...read the mans input; He is a DECADES old owner of Model A..not a neophyte ! NOT a BEGINNER NOR FIRST TIME OWNER,eh !

i concur and this car has some upgrades mentioned such as an xtra wiper, repainted fenders added tail light. its to original for that much mooola, i would rather have a nicely restored car without a worn /stinky interior and exterior bruises from 85 years of mostly storage by different owners. i would save up another 10k or so to obtain that

With all the "twists/turns than my 18 foot boa " did I miss which car he is looking at exactly?
 
IMHO, fly down, look up a good club judge, let him/her tell you why you don't want this car, and if he/she can't, snap this up quickly.
Don’t rely on your opinion, because you want the car your mind will not let you see the same flaws a detached person will see.
This is a specialty car, i.e. original condition. You won't see these coming on the market too often. The trophies speak for themselves, it has been looked at by some commandant people so all indicators are in the green, just make sure the car is the one you have the information about.
Bottom line, put your hands on the car before buying, but don’t take too long or it could be gone!
 
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Now I'm confused. :eek:

I thought this was a very nice original car that should NOT be restored. :confused:

Nice original survivors are my favorite. :)


I didn't say that!! :o To me it is a very nice survivor car, but from my perspective there are WAY nicer original cars out there. Everyone's level of expectations are different and mine may be a tad higher than others. It probably would have needed to break over 400 points for me to get overly enthused. For me, this car has had the engine rebuilt, the fenders repainted, britework replated, etc. I am thinking the Vic that Bill Underwood had was a tad nicer in overall condition, but again this is just my opinion which is one of many others here.

With all the "twists/turns than my 18 foot boa " did I miss which car he is looking at exactly?

He responded back to you in Post #35 confirming which car it was.
 
I live in Calif. and want to buy an expensive Model A in Michigan without traveling back to see it. Anyone out there experienced this way of acquiring a modelA? Any helpful suggestions? What questions should I ask to learn about this car to make sure it's really a good one? Thanks in advance for your thoughts. Bill

Bill-
My summary on all the comments:
1-You should go ahead and buy the car sight unseen but only after you first hire someone to inspect it and then personally inspect it yourself.
2-The car is certainly overpriced but an absolute bargain considering its rarity and condition.
3-It's a great original survivor that should be preserved and completely restored.
4-If you do buy it, be sure to ship it enclosed on an open carrier.
5-Make sure you know what victoria you are buying: this one, that one, or this and that one.

Are you confused yet?
Good luck on your decision.
 
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Where stand you on this car, Bill?? Keep us informed:)

Someone else will no doubt grab this car in short order if you pass on it................
 
Yep, I lost this beauty just this spring because I thought about it a couple days too long. A low mileage completely rust free California car for only 10K. I've never spent that much money on a car, so I thought about it for too long.:mad:
It is all original except the outside paint, which is a perfect match to the original door jam paint. BTW, the car went back to California.:mad:
 

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Yep, I lost this beauty just this spring because I thought about it a couple days too long. A low mileage completely rust free California car for only 10K. I've never spent that much money on a car, so I thought about it for too long.:mad:
It is all original except the outside paint, which is a perfect match to the original door jam paint. BTW, the car went back to California.:mad:

Hey Tom,
Sorry for you heartache ! 10K almost makes me cry :D! No, not because of you, but because my 95 yr old FIL offered me one just like it, i.e.- rust free, all there and in good shape with blue paint and good running engine.
He just did not want it anymore, as he had just bought a new '76 chev impala. He said take it FREE ! I said naah, it's strange looking...and besides which is the front and which is the back :p !!
 
Thanks everyone for your thoughts. I have read them and reread them and they are a great help. Bottom line is








Thanks everyone for your help. Bottom line is I gotta go see and drive it. Contacted the broker and await his response as to see when to make the trip as he is out of town this next week.Seems like the car has changed hands several time recently.I 'am pushing 70 and have always lusted for the right steelback . Not for show but to use and appreciate it for what it is. figure the kids will sell it not me. Does have 2 holes in the firewall for heaters. I just want to have fun with it for the duration. Again, thanks for your imput. This is a great site. Bill
 
Bill, so let's just see how big of a 'gambler' you are. Will you purchase a R/T airplane ticket, and only use it 'one-way' as you drive your new purchase back home, --or do you save some airfare $ and just get a one-way ticket and take the chance. ( You can always purchase another one-way ticket home if it wasn't what you expected! )


BTW, can you imagine how exciting for Bill, ...and for us if he did drive it home. Rainmaker Ron Cloat did just this very thing about 10 years ago and 'chronical-ed' his adventures on Fordbarn each evening. I think it was Vince that later hosted Ron's trip on his website. Bill driving this Victoria an average of 45 mph on back roads towards California with the plan to travel 300-350 miles a day would be an easy trip for the driver and the car. Outlining the route here would very likely see 'barners joining in on small treks or rendezvousing with Bill at stops along the way with other Model-A hobbyists. Bill might even get a few meals paid for along the way!! ;)
 
Well, it looks like I will pass on this victoria. Figure the trip back to Michigan to see and drive the car would be about 1000 dollars all said and done. I learned today from the broker that he needs a 1,250 dollar NON refundable fee to hold the car until I can get back there the first of next week. I'am going to look closer to home.Thanks everyone for your advice, Bill
 
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