Buyer's Remorse ?

marc hildebrant

marc hildebrant

Well-known member
Group,

Took the Model A out for a test drive today after new points/plugs/timing.
At 5000 ft altitude, the best I could do was between 45-50 MPH.

Also, so far some engine vibration and some wheel shimmy. Checked the front wheel bearings...they are O.K. but some tire motion when I check the king pins.

So, what is this 1931 Model A Tudor capable of ? Should I expect a smooth ride at 50 MPH ? Is a good speed for these things 35-40 ?

I had a 1933 Chev coupe and don't remember such a "shakely" ride with low power.

Marc
 
The functional condition of the shocks is important for a smooth ride, as for speed ,at sea level my coupe has no problem with going over 60---with a smooth ride, even though I need to rebush my kingpins.

A higher compression head can make up for loss of power at your altitude.

Some vibration is normal in a 4 cyl engine of 200 cuin, your Chevy was a 6cyl, they should have less vibration because 6 cly engines have better balance.
 
Did it run different before you did the points plugs and timing? I am comfortable driving mine about 40-45 mph it goes faster but above 50 it would be screaming and I feel that's pushing it to much. I know guys push it more but that's just where I feel comfortable at. Also has your car been sitting maybe your tires have flat spots. Just throwing that out there
 
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Your car, like everyone elses will have its own sweet spot. You can do several things to improve performance. If you are new to it, give yourselves a chance. Yes 45 is a good cruising speed.
 
Marc,
I am in Arvada, at the same altitude. My very tired Town Sedan with the original engine has about 45 as its top speed on the level. My coupe with a rebuilt engine, high compression head, and overdrive has been up to 60, but with more noise and some vibration. I expect yours will do better with some adjusting. There may also be some simple ways to reduce the shimmy. Don't give up yet! Come to the Model A Ford Club of Colorado meeting this Friday (www.mafcc.org) and you will meet some fellow Model Aers who will be happy to work with you. Some of our members are from the Longmont area or nearby. You would also enjoy some of our club activities. I hope to see you there.
Paul Scherer
303-456-0564
 
My 31 Delux Roadster cruises @40 mph very smoothly @ 45 its still runs pretty smooth, any thing over that I feel that im pushing it...Im sure it can go faster, but you seem to get a feel at a confortable speed, I guess it just up to the driver......................I LOVE MY MODEL 'A' EXCUSE ANY MIS-SPELLING. Im sure if u baby your baby, it'll probably last a lot longer, if im in a hurry I'll take my regular car, if not, I'll take old yeller! My Model 'A'...enjoy!!
 
I've always lived close to sea level, so I don't know the effect of altitude on cars. But in the past twenty years I've owned three light airplanes, and whenever I've been up to 5000' ASL, I've always had to lean the mixture quite a bit. Above 8000' ASL I always have to use full throttle and have the mixtures pulled way back (very lean) to compensate for the thin air. Even with the throttles wide open, the engines at that altitude were only developing about half their rated sea level power. May be your carb is running too rich for the air at 5000'. I might be way off base, but I gotta get more posts under my belt to get rid of my Junior status.
 
Timing is everything when it comes to power. I always set it just as the owner's manual tells. Have the timing pin just drop into the cam gear dimple, then the points should just be starting to open with the timing lever all the way up

My car has a well worn completely stock engine, but will easily do over 50 and drives fine even with worn out king pins and bushings. When I greased the car last week I grabbed the top of the front wheels and they moved in and out a couple inches. I'm using a temporary front end while I rebuild the original. Guess I should have also rebuilt the temporary front end before using it! :)
 
I never drive my A's over 50 mph, and more likely in the range of 35-40. Above that I'm WAY overdriving my brakes! They'll go faster, but the stopping distance is extreme and unsafe. If I want to go 60 mph, I drive my modern.
 
Group,

Thanks for the comments. I set the timing per the Les Andrews book so that the points just start to open at top dead center with the timing pin in and the spark at top. The system is fairly easy to do, once you get use to it.

I did not replace the condenser yet, though.

Down the road, I run with the timing all the way down.

With regard to the mixture...All the way CW is lean ? Seems to like to run CCW 1/4 turn from full CW.

Marc
 
"In and out a couple of inches" Tom, is this like the shoemakers kids going barefoot? Just kidding, I know you would not drive an unsafe car.... Jim
 
I have a 31 coupe with a BF head and mitchell overdrive and at 55 the motor sounds like it is screaming. I try to keep it at 45 tops!!!
 
I'm in Sedona, Arizona, at 4500 feet, and now and then I drive one of my Model A's up to Flagstaff, which is at 7000 feet. Both of mine have high compression heads. My Roadster runs along very nicely at about 52 mph, even at that altitude. My Tudor Sedan is happier at 47 to 50 mph. I'm not comfortable pushing them much faster than that.

One of the other responders mentioned timing. Really true. I have found that a very small adjustment in timing seems to make quite a difference in performance at my altitude.
 
I have to agree with the majority here. My roadster is happiest between 42 and 45. Remember, a non-counterbalanced crankshaft and babbit do not like to rev too high. If you want or need to go faster (modern traffic can be UNFORGIVING) perhaps consider an overdrive and some performance mods. Don't forget the braking system with any perf upgrades, you still have to stop!
 
BINGO! Just because they can go fast doesn't mean it's wise or safe to do so. Without a counterweighted crank I like to limit my speed to 45 also. Once I wasn't paying attention and when I looked at the speedometer while on the freeway, I was going 57 and it still could have gone faster, but I backed off.
 
Marc, I know this is going to sound like I'm being an a**h*le, and I am honestly writing this with respect, but did you go on the Internet and study up on the Model A before you bought one? It sounds like you put down your money and didn't bother to even drive the car before purchase. I have been fortunate to have owned and rebuilt many fine autos from my 1899 Leggett Horseless Carriage to my 1931 Model A and I would never purchase a vehicle without studying all the written information I could find, inspecting and then driving the unit before purchase. Your title "Buyers Remorse" sounds like intentional sour grapes. If you need a vehicle that cruises at 60-65 mph all day long another choice might be in order. There are a lot of fine cars out there more suited for higher sustained speeds.
 
" They were advertised to go 60 but will the car like that speed? "

And, in 1928-'31, how many Ford buyers had enough good road to find-out ?

I fully believe that a fresh, stock A can achieve 60 mph, but for relatively short sprints.

Try shoving it across country on the interstate for hours at a time at those speeds, and I think most will find their engine will object.

I think Edsel and Old Henry made a shrewd calculated bet in advertising the high-speed capability of the "new Ford". How many people were really going to test it ? ;)

That said, in reply to the Original Poster's comparison with a '33 Chevy, in terms of power and smoothness... the Stovebolt has some design advantages over the Ford: the six-cylinder engine, with it 120-deg crank throws has better inherent balance, plus, the six has more "overlap" on power strokes, so there's more consistent power-flow to the driveline. And, if I remember correctly, the Chevy six was rated around 53 HP, giving it some edge over the Ford.

On the other hand, the Chevy also had a much heavier wood-framed Fisher body ( which may contribute to a smoother, quieter ride, due to the weight ), which saps some of that extra HP.

Marc, was your experience with the Chevy also in high altitude ?

I've had my very tired '28 Special Coupe up to 55 mph on level road... that's about as much as it's got... I like to cruise at 45 or less.


As for engines screaming... the Ford, with its relatively tall gears (3.77) and tall wheels, I wouldn't say mine is "Screaming" at 55 ( about 2500 rpm)... but it is getting "busy"...

Now, my '41 De Soto (4.11 rear & 6.50x16 wheels), and any of my past Stovebolts
(4.1 rear & 6.00x16 wheels), they were "screaming" at 50 mph + ( over 3,200 rpm ). :eek:

Would suggest seeing what kind of compression your engine has; if the compression is getting weak, that will have an effect on "pep"... if all else is good, you might have to re-jet your carb for high altitude operation ?

:cool:
 
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