business coupe's oval window

I have heard from other '29 54A owners that the earliest verified firewall date is March '29. That doesn't mean there were no oval windows before that, that's just the earliest one I have heard of in my correspondence with other owners. My date is May '29.

Woodie, I have an album page for the 54A set up on my profile page, if you want to add a picture of your car there.
 
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Thanks Steve, perhaps I used the wrong choice of words when I said option, perhaps I should say design change. I know that the '29 came with "oval windows". What I would like to find out is actually when it went into production. I know of one "blindside" Business Coupe that was produced in February of '29. As 700 rpm states the earliest firewall date he has heard of is March of '29. In 1972 I came across a gentleman at Hershey who sold Model A parts and used his "oval window" on his catalogs. He also kept a registry and asked me to sign it and if I remember I was something like number 25. He told me the "oval window" don't come out until March or April. How soon would you think that after blueprint dates you found would something go into production? Another Ford mystery?
 
woodiewagon46 said:
Thanks Steve, perhaps I used the wrong choice of words when I said option, perhaps I should say design change. I know that the '29 came with "oval windows". What I would like to find out is actually when it went into production. I know of one "blindside" Business Coupe that was produced in February of '29. As 700 rpm states the earliest firewall date he has heard of is March of '29. In 1972 I came across a gentleman at Hershey who sold Model A parts and used his "oval window" on his catalogs. He also kept a registry and asked me to sign it and if I remember I was something like number 25. He told me the "oval window" don't come out until March or April. How soon would you think that after blueprint dates you found would something go into production? Another Ford mystery?
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Those are great questions...both of them. I think that is all something we all would like to know and have absolute proof!

Pluck
 
Only 50 left seems pretty low.

We had at least two oval window coupes in our club that I knew of, but the one Brent Terry restored went to Arizona a couple years ago when the owner moved there.
 
The first add (that I have) about the Business Coupe was in the April 1, 1928 issue of The Ford News.

So maybe it made its initial apparence in March of 1928???

Pluck
 
Vin-Tin, what did you determine about the ones in your original post? What did they measure?
 
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My 1929 Business coupe has a gas tank date of Feb 19, 1929, and has neither flat nor beveled quarter windows. It is just like the 1928 version... No quarter windows at all.

In fact I have personally seen or driven at least six business coupes in the last 50 years, and except for mine all of them were the later 1929 versions with the oval windows. So maybe the 'blind' style is the rarer of the two?!? Never realized that there might have been a beveled style, so did not note any thing in particular about the various side glasses.
 
Lycoming, by comparing monthly production numbers we might be able to get a rough estimate on how many '29 54A's had windows, since we seem to be circling around March 1929 as the earliest known date with windows.
 
700rpm said:
Vin-Tin, what did you determine about the ones in your original post? What did they measure?
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I have no clue what the ones measured in my first post. It's just a picture I found on the web.


This picture below is the one I'm more interested in.
The guy who has (had) these personally removed these from a car he got from an old guy and said they were original.


I'm 99% sure the top irons are originals. I've compared them to pictures of a business coupe on Brent Terry's website and they do look the same. That car has flat glass though as far as I can tell. But that's not saying "all" of them did.
After reading Herm's response, i'm folding onto hope that they are indeed original.
The real reason i'm so interested in this is because I decided to collect all original parts needed to turn my '29 sport coupe into a business coupe.
...and i'm still trying to figure out how to navigate the MAFFI website and figure out where Pluck got all that good info he posted in post #18.
 
700rpm said:
Lycoming, by comparing monthly production numbers we might be able to get a rough estimate on how many '29 54A's had windows, since we seem to be circling around March 1929 as the earliest known date with windows.
Click to expand...

Ray,

What a great thought!!! HOWEVER...Unless someone walked off with them, the Ford Archives could NOT find any monthly production records from all of 1928 through September 1929...HOWEVER, there are monthly records from October 1929 (except December 1929) through 1932 for Model A/AA production.

I was in BIG hopes that there would of been for all of 1928 to September 1929, which would of told me some great information on the opening of certain assembly plants that I am still trying to find, but to no avail, unless someone walked off with them...Hmmmmmm...I wonder!

Pluck
 
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Vin-tin said:
I have no clue what the ones measured in my first post. It's just a picture I found on the web.


This picture below is the one I'm more interested in.
The guy who has (had) these personally removed these from a car he got from an old guy and said they were original.


I'm 99% sure the top irons are originals. I've compared them to pictures of a business coupe on Brent Terry's website and they do look the same. That car has flat glass though as far as I can tell. But that's not saying "all" of them did.
After reading Herm's response, i'm folding onto hope that they are indeed original.
The real reason i'm so interested in this is because I decided to collect all original parts needed to turn my '29 sport coupe into a business coupe.
...and i'm still trying to figure out how to navigate the MAFFI website and figure out where Pluck got all that good info he posted in post #18.[/QUOTE]

OK guys, here is a tutorial...

Go to this site: 3. www.maffi.org Model A Ford Foundation, Inc. (National Club) (MAFFI)

When the page comes up, at the bottom of the hash tags on the left side of the screen, you will see a RED hash tag...that says "Model A Parts Index"...click on that.

That will bring you up to a screen and just plug in the part number of the specific part you are interested in. That will tell you all the information (except for the specific info) that occured to the specific part. From there, you will have to contact the Ford Archives to get the "rest of the story" such as Part Releases and Part Drawings.

Now, sometimes you will get something like that there is no information...this may or may not be true...Still contact the archives because NOT ALL of the info is on that MAFFI site and just might be at the archives...Don't ask me how I know!

Pluck
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So here is a breakdown of all the parts that I can come up with pertaining to the "Oval Window" assembly. This is from the November 15, 1929 Body Parts List.

A-51713-B: Bracket (quarter belt rail to Landau iron) R. H.
A-51714-B: Bracket (quarter belt rail to Landau iron) L. H.
(Not sure if the upper two brackets apply to this assembly...I don't think they do as this was a service item...See August 1928 Service Bulletin)
A-54132: Channel (quarter window glass)
A-54120: Frame (quarter light) assy.---outside
A-54125: Frame (quarter light) inside
A-54124: Glass (quarter light)
A-37645-A Insulation (quarter light glass)

Just what the other four brackets are in Vin-tin's photo...I do not know. If they are for the oval window asembly, then I have no idea just how they are spelled out in the Body Parts List.

Seems like I am missing something here...anyone?

Pluck
 
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700rpm said:
If you can give us the dimensions of these windows we can compare them with what we have and may be able to make a determination that way. The bevelled windows I have seen were smaller than originals, but I have only seen two cars like that.

I just measured mine, which I am pretty sure are original, and they measure 14"x9". They are not bevelled, and the have 12 screws attached from the inside.

The braces in your photo look correct, but may be repros, which I understand were being made a few years ago, though I have never seen an actual set.

Here are a couple photos that show a correctly restored car and an original vintage shot. You can see the approx. size and placement, and the glass appears to be flat in both pictures.
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Ray,

I have to respectfully disagree with you...It looks like the photo with the young lady in it...those windows are beveled...are they not?

Anyone?

Pluck
 
Here are a few I found after a quick perusal of my stash...I realize that these images do nothing to answer the questions of this thread, but hey, they are pretty to look at!

-Tim

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Rain_7th_and_Hill_1938_zpshdrsxyva.jpg


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846-02796317w_zpslmceyiki.jpg


DSCN0336.jpg
 
Tim,

Photo number five (5) "Main Street Looking East" is downtown Walla Walla, WA. It was during the, I think, 1931 Mill Creek Flood. I have seen the photo before and had completely forgot about it.

Pluck
 
Steve, I have to disagree with you about the picture with the girl. I think what you see is a reflection of the frame. I have owned mine since 1970 and whenever I see one I naturally gravitate to it and have never see one with beveled glass. I don't know of any Model A body style that used bevel glass and why would Ford, being economical as he was incur the extra expense of beveled glass. Like I said I have owned mine since '70 and over the years have seen two "fake" business coupes, both having way too small windows. Oval shaped windows came on several different brands, mostly as back windows, so they could have been inserted on "blind back" Business Coupes. The two flat brackets in the picture go from the belt rail to the rear roof structure on each side of the rear window. Thank's for all your research!
 
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