Broken spindle arm ball questions

1

1929tudor

Senior Member
Was wondering if anyone could answer a few of my questions about a broken spinlde arm ball. I was backing out my A this morning and it wouldn't back out easy so I got out to look and the front wheels were going in opposite directions. When I parked the car last time out it seemed fine. Anyway I looked and saw on the drivers side the spindle arm ball is broken off and the tie rod end on laying on the ground with the ball in it. My question is I saw in the parts books they want your spindle arm for exchange and it looks like a new ball is put on. Anyone ever get those from them and are they any good? I hate to go back with original arms and balls for fear it will happen again. Could have been seriously injured today if it happend going 40MPH or even slower. Anything to watch for in replacing them as far as installation and making them fit right? Thanks so much for your help.
 
How long have you had your Model A?

Was it restored by someone else before you got it OR did you do the restoration?

Look closely at the broken area...had someone "repaired" them at one time OR is it the real thing but just broke?

If I were you, I would get a new rebuilt arm from A and L.

I was driving when mine let loose on the south side of Bend, Oregon back in about 1980 or there abouts...That was not a nice scene. I had someone, at the time, weld new balls onto the arms but that was not good enough. I complained to MAFCA about it and they removed the add from The Restorer at the time.

You might want to check all three of those components (right and left spindle arms and steering pitman arm) to see if they are original or if someone has welded new balls onto the arms

Pluck
 
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Original arms and balls are forged one piece, yours that came apart is one that the ball was replaced ---Henery tested the hardness of every steering arm when he made them (small flat grind mark with dimple on side of arm--brinell hardness test)
There have been many people replacing balls with different methods, personally I don't like most of the methods, I spent the money for NOS original parts, if I had to go with replaced balls I would get the A&L ones.
 
every case of broken spindle ball that I have heard of involved one that was a replacement ball pressed into the spindle where the original was drilled out, and welded along the underside. Check to see if yours has had that done. The heat from the welding anneals the spindle, which fatigues and eventually breaks at the stress point. I would not reuse the spindle you have. Find an original one that is intact. If you find one with a round ball, great, but you can use a worn one by having the ball replaced. A&L has figured out a way to replace the ball that is proving to be acceptable. The method of removing the ball but leaving the shank, then pressing a new ball over the shank and tig welding the top has been largely successful. (I have heard of one instance of failure where the weld was poorly done.) This method does not heat the spindle to the point is is annealed, so the steel's strength at the stress point remains.
 
Thanks Steve and Kurt and Pat. I haven't taken apart anything yet. I've had my model a for about 5 years and I didn't do any restoring on it. So far it has run fine and other than the usual things that need replacing, oil, tuneup and things like that I haven't had to do much so this is new to me to fix. I'm hoping to get everything apart in the next few days to see. It does look like the ball shaft has a clean break which I would guess that it is a welded ball like you guys said. To try and find some good original spindle arms wouldn't the ball most likely be out of round and have to be reworked?
 
1929tudor said:
Thanks Steve and Kurt and Pat. I haven't taken apart anything yet. I've had my model a for about 5 years and I didn't do any restoring on it. So far it has run fine and other than the usual things that need replacing, oil, tuneup and things like that I haven't had to do much so this is new to me to fix. I'm hoping to get everything apart in the next few days to see. To try and find some good original spindle arms wouldn't the ball most likely be out of round and have to be reworked?
Click to expand...

In most cases yes, but in some cases no...good ones are out there...trust me.

If you want untouched originals, try calling Bert's in Denver OR get the ones from A and L like we have said in all the above posts.

Please let us know just what you find.

Thanks.

Pluck
 
You were very fortunate that the fault occurred while you were not rolling down the road. There have been horror stories over the years about replacement spindle balls failing. This was the reason Bratton's removed the replacement spindle balls from their catalog. He did not want to be party to a law suite.

In most cases the repair was to saw the old ball and shank off and drill a hole in the arm, slip the new ball and shank in the hole, and weld it. You were betting your life on the integrity of the weld. To use this approach the drilled hole should be milled for an interference fit to the shank so it is pressed in. The welding should be done by a professional welder.

A&L uses a different approach. They mill the old worn ball off leaving the shank and the area where the old ball was as part of the shank. They then press a new ball down over the shank with an interference press fit and weld just the very top where the shank fits through. I have rebuilt a number of front ends using A&L's product. The replacement spindle units Bratton's sell come from A&L.

Tom Endy
 
UPDATE on my spindle arm problem. I had time this afternoon to remove the arm and found the spindle ball and shaft came out of the hole that was drilled in the bottom of the arm. So looks like the old ball and shaft were removed and the hole drilled out and a new ball and shaft installed and welded just like most of the guys that posted here today said probably was the case. I will do what some have suggested and either get ahold of Berts or A & L. Thanks guys for the help. Might even post an ad to see if anyone has a nice set of right and left ones for sale since I have the whole thing tore apart might as well replace both sides. Thanks again for all who posted.
 
1929tudor said:
UPDATE on my spindle arm problem. I had time this afternoon to remove the arm and found the spindle ball and shaft came out of the hole that was drilled in the bottom of the arm. So looks like the old ball and shaft were removed and the hole drilled out and a new ball and shaft installed and welded just like most of the guys that posted here today said probably was the case. I will do what some have suggested and either get ahold of Berts or A & L. Thanks guys for the help. Might even post an ad to see if anyone has a nice set of right and left ones for sale since I have the whole thing tore apart might as well replace both sides. Thanks again for all who posted.
Click to expand...

Check that pitman arm also!...Might be of the same nature as the two spindle arms...That is the one that came loose from my steering on the south side of Bend, Oregon going north and some of you know just how that area looked back in the early 1980's.

Hmmmmmmmm...I wonder just who it was that helped me out in Bend?

Pluck
 
Thanks Steve, Pitman arm looks ok. It is actually one of the short ones and I installed that last year from Snyders. Thanks
 
Sounds like a job for JB Weld.:D:p

Well.......maybe not.:eek:

My 28 had very flat balls from years of use and lack of grease. I welded them up and filed then round, but it was more work than I'd want to do again.:eek:
Next time it will be the A&L method.:)
 
I heard of a method: Drill out the arm, counter drill the hole slightly larger at the bottom end, then, with 1/8" of the shank protruding, heat the shank, stick it in & secure it , upside down on an anvil, by peening it over well. I've NOT known of any of his failing.
WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?? Bill W.
 
this is how we used to do it
labor intensive, but we felt it was much safer
tk

A&L uses a different approach. They mill the old worn ball off leaving the shank and the area where the old ball was as part of the shank. They then press a new ball down over the shank with an interference press fit and weld just the very top where the shank fits through. I have rebuilt a number of front ends using A&L's product. The replacement spindle units Bratton's sell come from A&L.
 
Hi 1929,

Humble opinion:

You found one (1) defective ball installation which as stated above could have been life threatening.

Could it be possible that the former ball installation guy may have provided other defective ball installations in other locations on your Model A where the originals were found to be slightly out of round?

To re-emphasize what Steve said in above in massage no. 2, it may be a good idea, just for future safety, to check if there were other similar, new round ball installations, just in case others are about to break off.

A & L did all of mine a few years back.

As is emphasized herein so often on any Model A parts ordered from the Wholesaling A & L Company, mediocrity is never in A & L's vocabulary.

Hope this helps -- safety first.
 
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Wiley Higgins in Cummin Georgia does a fine job rebuilding steering arms and many other model A parts. I use Wileys spindle and pitman arms. Wiley has a bunch of them and will probably sell without exchange. Wiley has been published in the national club magazines from time to time in the past and is fairly famous in the model A world.
 
Not sure A&L would be able to use my arm because the ball and shaft pulled right out of the arm so there is a hole where that went in the arm. If A&L mostly uses the old shaft but just redoes the ball then maybe mine wouldn't work. Ill have to contact them to see.
 
Make sure you get the right style for your car if that is important to you...check the Judging Standards out for that information.

Pluck
 
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