Broken control rod spring replacement

mcorrell

mcorrell

Senior Member
Has anyone attempted to replace the little spring inside of the cap that attaches to the ball on the advance control rod? Parts suppliers were showing control rod sets out of stock when I ordered parts last week but today Snyders appears to have them back in stock. Problem is that it will likely cost as much to ship them as the rods cost themselves.


I am thinking I can cut the advance rod in half, replace the springs (I have a lot of small springs saved from gunsmith projects), and weld it back up possibly even adding a half inch or so as it currently rubs the ignition cable going to the distributor.
 
Some repairs and alterations are worthwhile but the rods can be found used. I've lengthened them to change one length to another or to replace a bad ball socket coupling end. Used ones may be OEM or may be old reproductions so a person has to look them over carefully to see what they want. If new ones are available then it saves the work it takes to modify or repair. I do save the old usable parts just in case. Look the little arms over well on the steering column and make sure they still have enough of a ball for the spring socket to capture. I've brazed those little devils up too.
 
rotorwrench said:
Some repairs and alterations are worthwhile but the rods can be found used. I've lengthened them to change one length to another or to replace a bad ball socket coupling end. Used ones may be OEM or may be old reproductions so a person has to look them over carefully to see what they want. If new ones are available then it saves the work it takes to modify or repair. I do save the old usable parts just in case. Look the little arms over well on the steering column and make sure they still have enough of a ball for the spring socket to capture. I've brazed those little devils up too.
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I wish that were the case over on our side of the country. I scrounged the Luray Swap meet and only found 1 Spark Control rod worth buying. Most either have a weak spring on at least one end,the rod is rust pitted, or the end of the cap is worn. The costs of having a group of them Cadmium plated means that it takes a nice one to start with to have something worthwhile in use. The new reproduction ones have been out of production for more than a year.
 
I think that's rackops's music I hear playing.... I know he's setting up a plating arrangement for small parts, but he's also looking for candidates for reproductions. The demand for quality control rod reproductions would be very high.
 
Mine has one spring broken and has no tension on the ball stud. I found a new advance control rod on Ebay for $20.55 shipped. The seller states 9 available if you need one, or a spare.
 
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nkaminar said:
There is a coupling available that can be used to change the length of any control rod. If the control rod was cut the coupling could be used to put it back together. See https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/product.htm?pid=979546&cat=41663
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I fabbed my own connecter/adjuster for my control arm.

571788
 

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If the demand would be high how many sets and what would the price point be for identical to original as compared to ones that just worked but were obviously replacements.
If you needed a order for 5000 of each length and you had to pay for the 5000 up front
And the market is 300 sets a year ( how many do you think?)
If a perfect reproduction cost 12$ each to make .
A metal one that looks different but usually works is 6$
And a metal rod with molded on plastic ends costing 3$
which one would you make and how much would you sell them for?
 
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Here's a "coupling" made using setscrews:
 

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Kurt in NJ said:
If the demand would be high how many sets and what would the price point be for identical to original as compared to ones that just worked but were obviously replacements.
If you needed a order for 5000 of each length and you had to pay for the 5000 up front
And the market is 300 sets a year ( how many do you think?)
If a perfect reproduction cost 12$ each to make .
A metal one that looks different but usually works is 6$
And a metal rod with molded on plastic ends costing 3$
which one would you make and how much would you sell them for?
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OK Kurt, I'll bite...

5000 sets means ROI over 16 years if 300 sets annually are sold. For someone who has the expendable Capitol to make this $180k order will be how old will John Doe Investor be when they see the ROI?

The next thing is, -will 300 sets of annual sales be accurate? If the manufacturing costs for each one is $12.00, then retail at minimum will be $24.00. This is because someone needs to pay to ship them to the warehouse, and then for the warehouse space. Next we need to factor in a profit for the Person who made the investment. So lets say we are at $2.00 each for shipping (-for both overseas and trucking from dock to warehouse) and $2.00 for warehousing. Now we are at $16 each by the time they are ready to distribute. Let's just say the person selling these would like to make $4.00 profit off of their $240k investment (-I wouldn't risk it for 25% profit!!). So now the sets are distributed to the Vendor who will sell them each for $24 which means they must pay the freight from the Warehouse to their business, then inventory them, -and wait for them to sell for a $5.00 profit minus the freight, warehousing, and advertising costs.

So what did I miss in this synopsis??

Now imagine the greedy/selfish Business person that says, I am going to make a cheaper Control Rod where I can undercut John Doe Investor by $2.75 because while mine won't be the same quality I know I can sell it because it will be cheaper and Model-A ppl will buy it because of the lower price.

So what did I miss in this second synopsis??
 
Has anybody looked at summit or speedway for multiple carburetor linkage rods?
My old Fords have multiple linkage rods all the way into the 1960s.
 
BRENT in 10-uh-C said:
5000 sets means ROI over 16 years if 300 sets annually are sold. For someone who has the expendable Capitol to make this $180k order will be how old will John Doe Investor be when they see the ROI?
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Brent-

As usual, you nailed it.

I'd like to get some quotes on making the control rods from my sources - just need to get the drawing first (sadly, it doesn't appear to be available for free).

I was able to get quite a few from a couple of collections recently and have had them cadmium-plated. I'll have to see what I have available if anyone needs them. And this was after digging through ones that were rusted beyond use, didn't have broken springs, and that survived the cad plating process.

As far as getting parts made, I'm in the process of doing that. It's not an immensely difficult process, but if it's being done as a business, it gets very complex, and the fees add up quickly. More daunting are the up-front costs...nothing is free.

For me, having parts made is just a side gig, and I run it as a single-person small business. I don't have overhead except for my house, and my storage is in my shed. So those don't cost me. I also don't plan on wholesaling items, so that's helpful too.

That said, what I'm doing is very low-profit. I don't need to pay to keep the lights on, nor do I have to pay employees, so my margins can be really thin. I also look at this as a fun part of the hobby, and I see it as an opportunity to help out fellow Model A owners.

Unfortunately, when I have things made, they are not in sufficient quantity to qualify for massively reduced prices. I'm having parts made in the hundreds, not the thousands, so I'm paying a premium for what's being made. I also don't want to be stuck with some of these parts forever, so there's a balance between buying in mass quantities and having a stock that I'll eventually sell out of, with a decided variance in profit margins for me.

The other massive headache is tariffs. These are big in the news right now and for good reason. I'm having to pay around 30% tariffs depending on what country I'm working with. That doesn't include the other import duties included on goods coming from overseas, so I'm averaging 50% import fees on what I'm buying.

When I had my dash light contacts made, it cost about $1200. Not too bad, but having to pay almost $600 in import taxes and tariffs made my contacts $1800. :( So now I have to figure that added cost into the dash lights, which were already expensive because of the time needed to properly plate them.

As the tariffs have gone up and down, the amount I have to pay varies. At one point, tariffs went over 100%...and unless I was willing to pay double for my parts, it wasn't worth getting them made, sadly. (And no, the people with the skills and the tech available to produce these old-school parts, and produce them in limited quantities, are non-existent in the US...so having parts made overseas is my only option.)

I enjoy helping the hobby and like being able to offer parts no longer produced or reproduced, but the journey is definitely a roller coaster at times!

Dave
 
Rackops, I am asking this because I don't know the answer. Would it make sense making the parts yourself? Say you had a numerical controlled machining center? And other machines that would automate the process?
 
nkaminar said:
Rackops, I am asking this because I don't know the answer. Would it make sense making the parts yourself? Say you had a numerical controlled machining center? And other machines that would automate the process?
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It’s sort of impossible to answer this because you’re assuming into existence a couple million dollars in equipment. The cost structure to acquire and operate that equipment determines the answer.
 
When I said 300 sets it was what I thought was a high guess—
say the 3 larger dealers committed to 25 sets each initially and 10 other dealers committed to 5 sets each and there is a market for some of the V8 ones— the manufacturing process would have to be length flexible —
What do you think the market is for them?

I make a 35-36 Ford convertible sedan and cabriolet part.( the metal part under the front header )
It is something I needed for my car and have sold a few.
I can make over 100$ a hour installing brake pads with a small investment.
I have over 100 hours making fixtures patterns and some tooling .
It take 3.5 hours to make one in lots of 3.
The material and delivery postage is 45$
How much should I sell them for?—- compared to what will the market pay for them.
I doubt there is a market for more than 100 over 10 years so it isn’t something that would make a large machinery investment to speed production viable.
 

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nkaminar said:
Rackops, I am asking this because I don't know the answer. Would it make sense making the parts yourself? Say you had a numerical controlled machining center? And other machines that would automate the process?
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Unfortunately, no. As alexiskai mentioned, the start up costs for the machinery would far beyond the value of the parts...ever. I live in an area where there are quite a few remaining machine shops due to the shipping, boating, and farming industries and folks aren't interested in low-run, low-dollar items...even if they had the machinery to do it.

Some of these items are made by hand and as much as I hate to say it, the overall price I pay for the items directly reflect the amount of money paid to the people on the assembly line. If someone overseas is getting paid $2 an hour, and I have a similar person here making $20 an hour (assuming a reasonable level of skill and experience) the cost of manufacturing will increase tenfold.

When it comes out in the wash, I'm still paying less for the parts by importing them, even with the tariffs I have to pay than the cost of having them made in the US.

While some people might say "I'm willing to pay double to have it made in the US"...most people don't feel that way and those people most definitely don't number in the hundreds or thousands. I'm sufficiently rententive enough to pay good money for parts for my Model As because I want them to be in accordance with the JS, but the vast majority of Model A owners aren't concerned about fine point and would rather buy a part that looks mostly correct, particularly if it's half the price.

Finally, I'm all over the map with what I'm having made. The parts are vastly different in design, construction, and manufacture (electrical contacts vs molded rubber parts) so having the ability to run multiple lines to manufacture different parts makes manufacturing them myself or having them made locally impossible.

Dave
 
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