Brake Roller Tracks

jbwthree

jbwthree

Member
Hello all. I’m in the middle of rebuilding my brakes and need to figure out what to do with the roller tracks. The previous owner had done the brakes not too long before I bought it but it looked to be a half a$$ed job and they were not safe. 2 of the roller tracks have been welded, 1 has been replaced and 1 is worn and in need of repair or replacement. Do most folks repair or replace ? I’m tempted to replace them all so I know that they are right but I don’t have a torch to heat the rivets. Thoughts and opinions appreciated !


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I recently replaced the tracks on my Town sedans brakes...I don't have a torch so hammered the rivets cold...make sure you have the riveting tool and ....a solid support base....plus a heavy hammer.
Vic
 
I have replaced them and also have welded them with good success.
I have Heli-Arc and also can machine the track to re-establish the original surface at the correct dimension.
I would not recommend welding unless you have the proper equipment.

My opinion,

Chris W.
 
I weld and machine them to specs. In my opinion it is the quickest and is the best method as well as most cost effective.
I have seen backing plates that have had the tracks replaced and the tracks were loose and the plates not straight.
The original riveting was very good.
Make your choice depending on your capabilities and skill level.
A comprehensive brake job includes full mechanical rebuilding including all bushings, shafts, tracks, levers and pin It’s a much bigger job than most think on a Model A but when done properly they are great brakes.

As I said above you can fix them by welding and machining or grinding to specs . I use a template guide from the original pins for rear at 1 inch and fronts 1 5/16 and you can use a smaller heavy cutoff wheel to grind the flat for those that might not be able to use a mill .
It must be level and accurate. With assemblies together with shoes and installed you can check your work and the assembly with a centering gauge . Admittedly I use Krw gauges but the dealers also sell centering gauges or your club tool crib if you have access to one may have them available as well.
Happy rebuilding !
Larry Shepard
 
I recently replaced all 4 roller tracks on my car. After grinding the original rivet heads off to remove the old tracks, I used a MAPP torch to heat the new rivets and a 16 oz preening hammer to complete the rivet. I did grind about 1/8” off the new rivets first. It worked out quite well.
 
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I am going to add to what Larry said above. It has been my experience that when you need a centering gauge, then something is out of specification. Ford never used a shoe centering gage when the shoes were installed on the assembly line. On the original factory print, Ford's engineers specified a two-thousandth of an inch variation to be the maximum that the Brake Shoe Centering Bracket be located. That is about the same specification as the thickness of a human hair. Think about that for a bit.

It is my opinion that most hobbyists do not have the ability to be able to match that critical tolerance. FWIW, -Ford did not allow his Agency mechanics to change out the Centering Bracket during brake work simply because they could not hit the correct location either. Chances are that if they could not do it, most restorers today cannot do it either.

Unless you have the proper fixturing to be able to correctly locate the bracket, you can miss it by 0.020-0.030 when the size of the rivet shank and the hole in the housing plate are all factored in. This causes shoes to be located incorrectly in the parabolic shape of the brake drum. Unless you can make sure the centering plate (track) is properly located, and the head of the pin is the proper size, then you are not going to have braking ability as these were original designed to have.
 
One advantage of owning a Model A, as opposed to another brand like a Nash or Hudson, is the availability of new parts. That is assuming the new parts are good quality. The average owner is not going to own a machine shop to rebuild parts and taking the parts to an outside machine shop would be more expensive than the new parts.
 
nkaminar said:
One advantage of owning a Model A, as opposed to another brand like a Nash or Hudson, is the availability of new parts. That is assuming the new parts are good quality. The average owner is not going to own a machine shop to rebuild parts and taking the parts to an outside machine shop would be more expensive than the new parts.
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Neil, you are making a very strong assumption aren't you?? ;) :D


I agree that the average Model-A owner today is not going to own a machine shop however the average Model-A owner is not capable of doing restoration work. Brutal, but factual. It used to be that many Model-A restorers had some type of of small lathe and/or mill in their garage, -or at least access to one at their workplace. Also, in most local Model-A clubs, there were at least a couple of guys that had access to machining equipment to help the ones in the club that didn't. It is different today.

One other thing that should be factored in on this. Most larger Model-A dealers offer a service to have brake housing (backing) plates rebuilt. I'm sure Larry offers this service and so do I. My point is know what your limitations are, but don't just half-#$$ do the job when that task can be properly done.



Bob, I will say this tongue-in-cheek to your comment about F/H Ted's kit, ...yeah, I can put 50 wt oil in a crankcase and make a Main Bearing knock go away. Doesn't mean I truly fixed it, -it just means I think I fixed it! :D
LOL.gif
 
B. Terry, All true. The previous owner of my Fordor bought rebuilt front brake assemblies, including the shoes, backing plates, roller tracks, etc. A very nice job. All that he need to do was bolt on the new assemblies, hook up the brake rods, and adjust the brakes. I wish he had done the same with the rears. They are OK but not 100%.
 
BRENT in 10-uh-C said:
I am going to add to what Larry said above. It has been my experience that when you need a centering gauge, then something is out of specification. Ford never used a shoe centering gage when the shoes were installed on the assembly line. On the original factory print, Ford's engineers specified a two-thousandth of an inch variation to be the maximum that the Brake Shoe Centering Bracket be located. That is about the same specification as the thickness of a human hair. Think about that for a bit.

It is my opinion that most hobbyists do not have the ability to be able to match that critical tolerance. FWIW, -Ford did not allow his Agency mechanics to change out the Centering Bracket during brake work simply because they could not hit the correct location either. Chances are that if they could not do it, most restorers today cannot do it either.

Unless you have the proper fixturing to be able to correctly locate the bracket, you can miss it by 0.020-0.030 when the size of the rivet shank and the hole in the housing plate are all factored in. This causes shoes to be located incorrectly in the parabolic shape of the brake drum. Unless you can make sure the centering plate (track) is properly located, and the head of the pin is the proper size, then you are not going to have braking ability as these were original designed to have.
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I assume what you are saying is that us amateurs will hog out the rivet hole when we go to drill the old rivets out....
 
BRENT in 10-uh-C said:
Well, I didn't say that ....however I do suppose that is a possibility! :rolleyes: :D
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do you think in a parallel universe somewhere, someone would make a removable bracket that somehow aligns the roller piece in its correct position vis a vis the backing plate and then we would proceed to riveting? Or I suppose you have already done that.....
 
ericr said:
do you think in a parallel universe somewhere, someone would make a removable bracket that somehow aligns the roller piece in its correct position vis a vis the backing plate and then we would proceed to riveting? Or I suppose you have already done that.....
Click to expand...

Ford had an alignment fixture to accurately locate them initially. Yes, we have made a fixture that aligns them. I am guessing Mr. Shephard has one too. I feel like there are others that have them also.

So reading between your lines and stepping further, if someone takes the time to secure a copy of the original A-2011 and A-2015 prints, the measurements can be taken off of those prints and a fixture can be made accordingly. Now the irony is, you need to make your jig based on which A-2017 centering plate you will be using as I have found dimensional differences between them. My 2 cents is the issue for most people is that is a lot of work to go thru just to do one set of plates however they are also too 'frugal' to have someone professionally do the job correctly. Therefore they settle for less quality of braking.
 
I have replaced the tracks by squeezing the rivets in a press. First you need nice clean holes in the backing plate and correct size rivets. Driving rivets can cause them to move. Put every thing in a press and heat the rivet tail then quickly set them.. my “A” stops nicely.
 
The heads of the rivets is not the best place for measuring the distance of the working surface of the roller track from. Ideally, it should be taken from the center of the big backing plate hole. I made a fixture to hold the backing plates in a mill vise and machine the previously welded up ears square and parallel. If you do only one, a lot of work, as I do a fair number, it was worth while getting it set up.

Mark
 
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