Bonded brake shoes

Mitch//pa said:
Don't you just love all those cob web cracks in bonded lining,, due to the GREAT heat dissipation :)
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BUT, you, my Kid, wuzn't around when we had QUALITY LINING & GREAT bonding procedures!! I KNOW what the f**k I'm talkin' about, believe it or not! Bonding was an ART, bonding to shoes that had been surfaced to a PERFECT ARC, for PERFECT BONDING, by a REPUTABLE COMPANY, not by PEP BOYS or LUCKY AUTO SUPPLY!
Y'all carry on, I GOTTA' GO PEE!
SA Dad
 
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Just one (1) humble and happy brake experience to share with others:

I called the senior and most all around knowledgeable Model A gentleman, Mr. Mel Gros, a few years back for "his" recommendations on "his" professional Model A brake services whereby he "strongly" recommended:

1. Sending my old steel drums assembled with my hubs ..... do not even try to remove and press out old lugs and hub to save shipping cost.

2. After "his" inspection of hubs, better used hubs may be needed ... he had a "few" good serviceable hubs to offer at very reasonable prices "only" if needed.

3. Allow "him" to install "his" cast iron drums on serviceable hubs inspected by "him"; and install "his" bonded linings on my brake shoes; and allow "him" to turn new cast iron drums on serviceable inspected hubs; and to allow "him" to dress linings to match "his" turned drums.

4. "His" Caution: Many complaints of squealing brakes came mostly from owner installed woven linings on cast iron drums; and "no" complaints from owners who allowed "him" to installed "his" bonded linings as described above; and he mentioned hearing quite a few complaints with owner installed cast iron brake drums and owner turned cast iron brake drums and shoes.

5. Glad I sent him four (4) steel drums with assembled hubs and received four (4) professionally installed cast iron drums with "his" installed bonded linings.

6. Moral of this "Life Saving" Model A brake adventure appears equal to:

With an abscessed tooth one has a choice:

a. Visit a professional duly licensed Dentist: or,

b. Save money and go to Joe Hoodoo to extract the tooth with his pliers that he carries in his wheelbarrow, where one can end in the hospital with gum infection ....... or ..... similarly ..... in the hospital with exposed gums because of a non-professional brake job.

In todays traffic, like years ago, drivers and passengers live only once.
 
" bonded linings do not dissipate heat as good as riveted, which makes them prone to heat cracks."

Baloney.
 
Any comments out there on the woven lining shoes that are bonded (glued) not riveted to the metal shoe? They are available from at least one supplier.
 
FWIW: Twenty (20) years ago, I called the Planimeter U. S. manufacturers of cast iron drums whose technician back then said they tried both woven and bonded linings and they thought woven linings worked a little better than bonded linings for stopping.

Let us not forget that manufactured bonded brake linings, like tires, will always vary in durability and quality.

Forty five (45) years ago, a newly opened "Big Brake Co," offered lifetime warranty on brake jobs ..... it only covered wholesale cheap cost of their woven brake linings and not their more expensive rates for labor to install.

Mine lasted about 2,000 miles and I was iron to iron ...... after one year, about (5) "Big Brake" service centers had so many law suits, they declared bankruptcy and left town because it was obvious that their specially manufactured linings had engineered planned obsolescence.

In my opinion, the key to having proper functioning Model A mechanical brakes depends not only on just obtaining quality lining materials, (either bonded or woven); but far more importantly, it depends also on obtaining a detailed professional like installation.
 
Maybe 10 or 12 years ago when I first got cast iron drums I installed bonded composite linings. They squealed. I recall but not from where someone came up with the idea of cutting some segments into the linings on the shoes. Cut maybe 1/3 of the thickness into a 1/8 inch wide cut across the width of the lining maybe in four or five places per shoe. This will provide a place for the produced dust to go. If the dust does not have anywhere to go it can act as a sort of lubricant between the shoe and the drum and allow the shoe to vibrate causing squealing. I tried it and it worked for me.

Vic

Vic
 
Coca-Cola never divulged their recipe for making their unique drink.

I worked for a canning factory years ago where other canning factories were trying to obtain this unique special process and recipe ..... they failed.

Anyone ever think that maybe Mr. Mel Gros's company will not divulge where he buys his non-squealing and non-cracking bonded linings that work well. LOL
 
"BALONEY"

Another great brake discussion
 

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Why not get technically far more serious and dig deeper?

Like maybe whitewall tires work better with bonded linings because they help to reflect tire heat that would normally get transferred to the bonded lining glue.
 
H. L. Chauvin said:
Why not get technically far more serious and dig deeper?

Like maybe whitewall tires work better with bonded linings because they help to reflect tire heat that would normally get transferred to the bonded lining glue.
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That has been well researched and it was found that the wide whitewalls were 30% more efficient in helping to dissipate brake heat.
 
I think it all has to do with the whining regardless of where the riveted or bonded. At least that's my experience. I had new cast-iron drums and I installed the Swedish woven riveted linings and they squealed and several other cars had the same lining and they squealed as well. I changed into some green bonded material and that squealed as well. I took it to a guy in north Seattle that had a black whining that was used for friction on the oil rigs in the golf. He turned my drums .010"and now they're quite as a mouse so far.funny thing he decided to retire shortly after sold the shop. The guy that bought it move it to a different city, and the oven was deemed not up to code and was not able to be used.
Lining not whining!
 
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Dissipating heat 'good?' Or should it dispute heat 'well?' (since we were getting picky over pad and shoe, let's be consistent, right?) LOL
 
My experience is bonded lining are too hard to work well (not work good. Did you note that?) and woven linings are much softer and so work better but wouldn't last as long. What's the point of having something that doesn't work properly for a long time anyway??
I believe woven linings riveted on are the best way to go. Even bonding woven linings seems to reduce their efficiency. I suspect some component is cooked out of them by the bonding process I have bonded linings on my Phaeton and the squeal something awful. By the time next month is out, they will have been replaced with riveted woven linings.
 
In the 70's, when I worked at the GM dealership, the new Cadillac and Buicks had riveted shoes while the cheaper Chevrolets had bonded shoes. I was told the riveted shoes dissipated heat better and were less likely to squeal, so even though they cost a hair more, the more expensive car lines got them.
 
An old mechanic, who still drove his 1927 Chev phaeton (he used it for his honeymoon) as his only car when I was a teenager, said the main thing with Model A brake linings is to make sure the material is soft enough.

He gave me a roll of it. Probably got some of it stashed somewhere.

I've never had much luck with hard linings on modernish cars. We only have one road with no speed limits and that is about three days drive away. So I can't see the need for it.

On my 4wd I just replaced the discs with slotted discs. These are supposed to work better by releasing the gas from between the disc and pad. With a softer pad they work much better that the previous ones.
 
For those of you who have not yet changed brakes shoes on your Model A, be forewarned that although it's a piece of cake with the fronts, the rear brakes require a BIT more effort just to get at the shoes. Here are two photos of what must be disassembled in order to reach the rear shoes beneath the emergency brake carrier, shoes and parts. Not really so bad to do this, if the unit has been apart in the last 50 years. :) The real PITA is putting that $%*&^ emergency brake arm return spring back on! With some safety wire and a long, thin flatblade screwdriver with a notch cut on one side, it can be done - albeit not easily. 'Never have figured out an easy way to do this, especially when the rear axle assembly is still in the chassis.
I have never had any luck removing/replacing rear brake shoes without all this disassembly. Has anyone else had success doing this without such massive disassembly? If so, my hat's off to you!
Marshall
 

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Ed;

Not sure why you had problems with them centering. They were arced to the drums we provided, but anyways -

Instead of removing the lining from the shoes we provided to you and selling them at a swap meet or using them as cores, why not return them to us for full refund? We will not accept the fact that someone that we sold parts to is unhappy or not satisfied.
Even though we will put them in our brake shoe core bin, we rather do this then have bad publicity. We have always said that we would back our product and services.

Send them to :

Randy Gross
16411 Shoemaker Ave
Cerritos, CA 90703
714-292-8660

Also, for those that asking if we would divulge where we get our shoe relined by, it is by a local brake company that is still operating in CA. We had to change sources about three years ago as our previous supplier went out of business after 60 years. The state regulations and expenses just made it not profitable for them. The company we are using now has been around just as long, but with a newer owner who bought the business 25 years ago. We use a soft, modern, bonded lining with chamfered leading and trailing edges. They are not a production line supplier, but a small specialty company that does many exotic and old vehicles shoes / clutches, equipment braking & clutches, and other applications.

The rebuilding of large product runs of shoes has for the most part, been replaced with new shoes import from various countries.
 
My best success in dealing with chronic squeekers is to lube ANY METAL TO METAL contact areas in your brake assembly, with a quality Disc Brake Lubricant. High Frequency noises are always present. When brakes are applied, those METEL TO METAL contacts are like an instrument, letting the high frequencies SOUND OFF, like a HIGH "C" NOTE!!
The best lube I've found is NISSAN'S lube.
Bill W.
 
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