Better ground with star washers?

[pgerhardt]

I have been thinking about ways to ensure good ground connections without having to sand away paint on my newly painted parts. One way would be to install a ground block and run extra wires. Another thought I had was to use star washers that would pierce through the paint and dig into the metal under neath.

Lock washers might do the same thing, but have only one point of connection, while star washers have many points. Any thoughts? Does anyone have any other good ideas about how to ensure good ground connections while assembling newly painted parts?

 

[Russ/40]

I think your proposal is a good one. Obviously not on a fine point car, but for a driver, why not. You can usually find a star washer that is hard to see when installed, and stainless is ideal. I'd do it in strategic places, and no one would ever know.

 

[SeaSlugs]

modern cars use star washers as grounds - and they are great to just last right outside the warranty. If your car is more than 5-10 yearts old remove the grounds, wire brush in a drill them clean and reattach - i can guarantee your headlights will be brighter and will smooth out the idle if its running a bit off. sometimes it can fix those odd gauge cluster issues.

SO yea its better than a lock washer but still not great - they love to invite water to get trapped and rust then you might as well not even installed them in the first place.

Why not clean off to clean metal part of the frame or whatnot and then paint over the connection?

How many grounds and where are you planning to put them?

 

[Y-Blockhead]

Use dielectric grease on your connections to water proof and prevent corrosion.

 

[CarlG]

I have been thinking about ways to ensure good ground connections without having to sand away paint on my newly painted parts. One way would be to install a ground block and run extra wires...

That's what I did.

 

[Willie Krash]

Years back in a trade magazine addressing the truck and auto industry they suggest not to use star washers. A wave washer is better. Yes they dig in but make hot spots that over time can burn. In other words the more surface the better.

 

[Kevin in NJ]

No I think it is a bad idea.

The washers may not dig deep enough to penetrate the paint we often use in restoration. Worse when a primer is used. Never trust a washer to make a ground unless you know there is very little paint thickness at that point. Keep in mind modern paints are pretty hard so they are less likely to come off under the washer.

People are always looking for the easy out.

You MUST get the bare metal in the areas. It is a lot of work to make happen neatly, but once it is done you will have good grounds. You will have little chance of that crazy ground issue causing odd problems.

I would even try to think ahead and mask off areas so I did not have to remove paint. At my brothers suggestion I tinned the area around where the battery ground goes and masked it off.

 

[harleytoprock]

I like using star lock washers under the terminal. It makes a good connection and the termlnal doesn't spin when you tighten the nut or screw.
Di-electric grease is a grease that does not conduct electricity. If you want a good connection a regular light grease is better. Di-electric grease is used on multi-terminal connectors on sensors or modules of modern cars, so no current leaks between terminals. "Di-electric" means it's not a good conductor.

 

[Mitch//pa]

I have been thinking about ways to ensure good ground connections without having to sand away paint on my newly painted parts. One way would be to install a ground block and run extra wires. Another thought I had was to use star washers that would pierce through the paint and dig into the metal under neath.

Lock washers might do the same thing, but have only one point of connection, while star washers have many points. Any thoughts? Does anyone have any other good ideas about how to ensure good ground connections while assembling newly painted parts?

What Painted parts are you worried about cleaning a spot on?

 

[pgerhardt]

What Painted parts are you worried about cleaning a spot on?

What brought on the thought was painting my starter, but there are many contact places where a good ground is needed. After reading all the suggestions I have come to the conclusion that there is no easy solution. On my starter I sanded away all the paint on one "ears" and laid a washer over the mounting hole area to keep paint from getting there. I guess that is the approach I'll use. Thanks for all your responses!

BTW NOT using dielectric grease is new to me? What would be a good conductive grease?

 

[Tom Wesenberg]

I've never cleaned the starter mounting surfaces anywhere and never had a ground problem. I use any grease and it all works fine. When the parts are bolted together the grease will move aside for metal to metal contact. Grease is good because it prevents rust and corrosion, which I find to be the major problem with obtaining a good ground. I like to grease the threads of every bolt during assembly.

 

[Y-Blockhead]

Dielectric grease can be used on any connection. It will move aside from the pressure of the connection for metal to metal connection while providing a moisture proof seal It can be used in a high temperature environment without melting.

I've never had a problem because it "doesn't conduct electricity". If fact that is one of the advantages of using dielectric grease in places such as spark plug boots, to prevent voltage leakage.

The only place dielectric grease should not be used is in a switch or where arcing may occur because it contains silicone.

 

[Mitch//pa]

What brought on the thought was painting my starter, but there are many contact places where a good ground is needed. After reading all the suggestions I have come to the conclusion that there is no easy solution. On my starter I sanded away all the paint on one "ears" and laid a washer over the mounting hole area to keep paint from getting there. I guess that is the approach I'll use. Thanks for all your responses!

BTW NOT using dielectric grease is new to me? What would be a good conductive grease?

Your over thinking it, just put the car together the same way they were 80 plus years ago.

 

[pgerhardt]

Your over thinking it, just put the car together the same way they were 80 plus years ago.

Yea, overthinking is SOP for me! On almost every operation I have already completely done it in my head before I pick up a wrench. The actual operation is usually easier than I imagined it.

Being a wholistic thinker has pluses and minuses. On the one hand, when coding, I usually have the whole program in my head before I start. On the other hand, on the restorations I often wish I could just relax, jump in, and just do it. But usually I am not comfortable unless I have the whole project laid out in my head first.

 

[Russ/40]

Man, can I relate to That! I'm always over engineering everything in my mind beforehand. Not a bad thing though. It has a lot of benefits, as long as your not paying, or being paid by the hour.

 

[Terry NJ]

I think the best way to get a good grounding spot on a daily driver would be put a spot of brazing or lead solder around the ground connection bolt hole. What we're talking about is a very conductive, non rusting contact point. And I looked around in my bolt drawer for a 3/8 brass bolt. ( I did not solder or braze my frame) I used a auxillary ground cable. And unless I'm dreaming, it made a difference. Think about what makes engine to frame ground in a mod A. Dirty, rusty steel bolts that in many cases are backed up with contacts drenched in grease. They might have been fine when new, but that was a long time ago. I haven't done it, but has someone ever checked with an ohmmeter, the electrical resistance just going through the frame rails to the crossbars and unpainted frame? It probably varies all over the lot from frame to frame and rivet joint to rivet joint. Just a thought!
Terry

 

[JEC]

I haven't used star washers on my model A yet.
I just used a bunch on my 25 T pickup I was having problems getting a good ground at the frame with the battery negative lead and sanded the frame paint and used a washer on each side if the cable end. Probably over kill but the starter spins right up.
The washer not only acts as a lock washer but with the bolt tight I am sure that the whole washer surface is making contact. Not just the washer points.

 

[larrys40]

Your over thinking it, just put the car together the same way they were 80 plus years ago.

Agreed and ditto what Tom said.. Just assemble the car, use common sense, make sure you have a good clean ground on the frame from the battery cable.
A little grease here and there will help prevent corrosion.

A little off topic but how many know there's oil points at the throttle linkage? a little drop on each side of the open hole at each side will make the throttle linkage work so much better!

I'm not for small aluminum washers for sure internal or external tooth on any heavy amp gauge cable. there are times when they are OK on lighter weight connections. '
Larry

 

[gweilbaker]

What brought on the thought was painting my starter, but there are many contact places where a good ground is needed. After reading all the suggestions I have come to the conclusion that there is no easy solution. On my starter I sanded away all the paint on one "ears" and laid a washer over the mounting hole area to keep paint from getting there. I guess that is the approach I'll use. Thanks for all your responses!

BTW NOT using dielectric grease is new to me? What would be a good conductive grease?

I ran a extra battery cable from the frame strap bolt to the lower starter bolt hiding it in the frame channel. This removes any questionable transitions like rivet points, bolt points etc. which could be mechanically sound but electrically resistant at high current.

 

[C26Pinelake]

Purdy Swoft previously gave an opinion that made lots of sense. Refer to the previous post. I personally miss his common sense. An engineer he is not, a smart man he truly is ! Wayne v