Bench testing convertible top motor

[Merc Cruzer]

The part numbers for the relays used for the 3 wire motor is FAA 14512-A or FAA 14546-A. Does anyone know the part number for the relay used on the 4 wire motor for the 1953-54 Fords?

Thank you for your assistance,

Roy ( Merc Cruzer)

 

[Merc Cruzer]

Would anyone have a picture or the part number for the 4 wire motor relay for the convertible top motor as shown in the attached diagram?

 

[Merc Cruzer]

Thought I would finish my original question. As it turns out the window motors on the 53' Merc are all 4 wire motors. So by taking the diagram for the window motors and using a window motor relay, I was able to complete the bench test of my new 4 wire top motor. There was the question, which wires acted in pairs. Two ways to find out. One is by taking the motor apart and tracing the wires, the other is to accept that the wire with the round grommet is the ground wire. In this case it is the (+), since this is a positive ground car. Then all you need to do is use a multi-meter and find the other wire that has continuity with the ground wire and you have the first pair. The other two wires then become the 2nd pair. Since the only wire diagram I had showed wire coding that did not match the wires on the motor, I used colored shrink tubing to code the wires on the motor to match the diagram. I did go the extra step and paint the tabs of the terminals on the relay just to make it easier if I took all of the wires off of the relay and lost the wiring diagram. I have attached a couple of pictures that reflect the bench test. I realize that this information will only apply to less than 5% of you out there, the ones that have 3 or 4 wire motors and screw jacks to lift the convertible top of your 52'-53' Ford or Mercury, but some times the question just needs to be answered and any way these motors are getting real hard for find in working condition. This way you can be a bit more flexible in your search for a replacement or back up motor, screw jacks and relay - which is what this system is for me, since it is always good to have the hard to find spares.

 

[Frank Miller]

Thanks for the update. While the window relays work they may not be able to handle the higher amps of the top. You may be able to cobble some relays together if you cannot find the right one.

 

[Merc Cruzer]

Thanks for the update. While the window relays work they may not be able to handle the higher amps of the top. You may be able to cobble some relays together if you cannot find the right one.

Frank,

That was one of my original issues, in that I don't have a picture of the top relay for a 4 wire motor and the wiring diagram the relay appears to be different. I will say that on the three wire motor relays, they are the same ones used on the seat motor. The tests so far, no issues other than it appears a bit slower than a three wire motor, but that could just be the differences between the two motors.

 

[rotorwrench]

We used to use a multi function relay for the starter/generators so that they could change functions after start. They called them a reverse current cut out relay or RCCR. The company quit making them so now we us a gang of two start relays to provide the two functions. A person might be able to do that with a top motor to replace those old multi function relays. We also use a bridge of 4 transistors for directional control on trim controls but they are better on light duty motors that don't draw so many amps.

 

[Frank Miller]

Here is a schematic using double pole relays I think will work. Noticed I powered the armature from the field relays as there is only one switch point. I think you can find 40amp 6 volt relays. Maybe someone knows more of what's available.

 

[Sunnybob]

Hi Folks, I have a 53 Monterey Convertible here in Italy and the top is not working. This thread is very interesting and I'm going to test if motor is still good. Unfortunally past owners removed original top relay and used a pair of home applications relays!! (Car were sold here in the 50s and american cars part were very rare to have). Anyway I saw Frank's schematic and I would like to ask if a pair of 40Ampere 12V relay will work as it's almost impossible to find 6volts ones. Thank you.

 

[Merc Cruzer]

They can be found, but not cheap. Luckily you have a 3 wire motor and not a 4 wire motor. The relays for the 4 wire motors are harder to find.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3641228782...QWBSB6yC1XwCrBBHYK1s1Osw==|tkp:Bk9SR7DD2eqNYg

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1542308461...t8T5ICIoV7uEyri2vlOhRb/9Y=|tkp:Bk9SR7DD2eqNYg

https://www.ebay.com/itm/4020568526...C+poblUzSsumDxyl8UkdCHAow=|tkp:Bk9SR8ri1MiOYg

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1655083601...YU8/QlqgJJlg4yRDN6bddfXqI=|tkp:Bk9SR8ri1MiOYg


https://www.ebay.com/itm/3256697123...r1NTNb0TxfycHA46U9tmZzGECQ|tkp:Bk9SR8zi1MiOYg

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1547765484...VZBT7edxjqEaqVrQ1qRcuqSEd6|tkp:Bk9SR8zi1MiOYg

Interestingly enough, the most expensive one is "for parts only"! I have found it it doesn't work, pull the cover off and clean the points, and you are good to go.

You might be able to to get a 12 volt relay to work but I haven't had much luck doing that.

I take it that you have tested the motor and it works? Since yours is only a three wire motor, it is easy: one goes clockwise the other goes counter clockwise and the last one is the ground.

Make sure you have a good power supply wire. Mine is wired directly to the battery side of the starter relay, and has it's own circuit breaker.

 

[Sunnybob]

Thank you for your answer but my motor has 4 wires, unfortunally. It's my fault as the picture is terrible.



We are going to test it, but it is not easy because somebody add 2 home type relays. Which is the best way to check only the motor, in your opinion? Is there any system to give it power directly?



About the relays. Is it voltage so important using them? I presume they are there to avoid 40amp through the switch, so do really care if voltage is 6 or 12v?



I'm going also to add some 12v circuit breaker as some are gone and they are not available here... They should work as the cut of current if there is too much amperage... Am I wrong?

 

[Sunnybob]

Another question... Under the rear seat, close to the top motor there is also this connector/realay with no wires to it. Is it original? Do you know what is it for, please? Thank you.

 

[Merc Cruzer]

Do you have a convertible top switch in the car? It should look like this:

Label all the ends of the wires. Take a good picture of the wiring and motor. At some point I may want you to disconnect all the wiring from the relays. Do you have a multi meter?

Could you post a better picture of the wiring and the motor? I am trying to see what color wires you have coming from the motor.

Since you have a 4 wire motor the wiring schematic labels that as a Ford motor not a Mercury motor.

Thank you,

Roy

 

[Merc Cruzer]

Another question... Under the rear seat, close to the top motor there is also this connector/realay with no wires to it. Is it original? Do you know what is it for, please? Thank you.

I would guess those were the circuit beakers, quite possibly for the top motor and if you have them, the rear power windows. When the top motor was rewired, they just were't used. They are 6 volt.

Does your car have power windows and is if so do they work?

When I rewired mine, I located the , circuit breakers, under the back seat, closer to the relay and motor.

 

[Merc Cruzer]

This is the correct convertible top relay (actually window and seat, but it works) for your 4 wire top motor:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3256734990...O006OxiID2DUBYm9kICDAEoA==|tkp:Bk9SR5L7j5-OYg

The third picture is the actual relay for your car,but it is hard to find:

 

[Sunnybob]

Hi Roy, thank you for your support. Car is at repair shop now and yes we have a multimeter. Here some better pics and videos.

Here video links :

https://youtube.com/shorts/PB5bW0b__N4?feature=share
https://youtube.com/shorts/MIfQhmyOLfc?feature=share


Are they ok? AS you can see there are lots of wires going to home style realys.. Should we label all them?

Switch is still original(3 wires).


About the other connectors. Car has Power windows and power seat. Rear power windows have been changed to manual and have no motors. They are gone

Front seems working but very slowly. Seat motor has been disconnected.


Thank you so much

 

[Merc Cruzer]

Good, you have a power seat. Since yours is disconnected, you might be able to use the relay from the power seat, for the power top. mine has a power seat too.

I can relate to your wiring, when I bought my car the wiring looks just a bad as yours. My second photo will show your where the top switch wires go. I am going to assume that the wiring configuration you currently have, worked at some point. So we are initially going to try to use what is there, for test purposes.

See if you can figure out where the wires from your top switch, connect to your relays. Then attach the power leads to your battery and see if you can use the the wires from the switch to short out the up and down wires to the ground. In my picture the blue wire is the common and the black and white wires are the up and down. You can test them with a multi meter to see where and when you have power. You can use a 12 volt for now, but remember the car is pos ground, unless that has been changed at some point. What battery was in the car, a 6 volt or 12 volt?

You mentioned the rear powere windows are gone are the relays still there?

 

[Sunnybob]

Car is 6v positive ground. I'm going to test it.. Stay tuned. Thank you again

 

[Merc Cruzer]

A few more pictures that might help, along with the wiring diagram, if you use a window/ seat relay, since the window motor is also a 4 wire motor.

The last two pictures show the window motor (a 4 wire motor) hooked up to the window relay, along with showing the ground and power terminals. It also shows the three wires going to the switch. I am more of a visual person, so some times, having a wiring schematic, doesn't work as well as a picture.

 

[Sunnybob]

Roy, thank you so much for your support! I really appreciate.


The motor is working . One of house style relay was blown!



The next step will be to take the seat relay and use it to test the connection following your directions.


I'll let you know

 

[Merc Cruzer]

Glad it worked for you. Any other pictures or information I can provide, feel free to let me know. 53' Mercury convertible in Italy, now you don't see that everyday! Feel free to post more pictures of your car. I know every body has seen mine but since you are new to the Barn.