Battery wiring for pre-starter T

Will N

Will N

Well-known member
Just got my '15 Touring delivered on Sunday. What a blast to drive! It's such a different experience from any other car I've driven. Anyway....

There is no starter in this car. There's a 6 volt lead/acid storage battery under the rear floorboard used for powering the ignition while crank starting the car. The positive terminal is wired to the post on the coil box, the negative is grounded to the frame (is that right, or is the polarity reversed, or does it matter?). The wires seem to be a home-made affair, and aren't in too good shape. I've looked in Snyder's and Lang's catalogues, and they don't seem to list any battery wiring harnesses for pre-starter cars. Should I just make my own replacement?

I also saw this thing called a Hot Shot. Looks to be a small battery for starting that gets recharged from the magneto. Sounds like a good thing, as I'd have to keep a trickle charger on the storage battery to keep it fresh. Anyone have any experience with this Hot Shot product?
Thanks
Will
 
Negative ground is correct. Hot shot or 6 vt. battery positive should go to the batt. terminal on the ignition switch (on the ign. switch or on the coil box depending on the year of the car) so you can switch to magneto after the car starts. You don't need both. They do the same thing. Supply batt. voltage to the coils when starting. Your coil box, I assume, is mounted inside the car. If the switch is on the box there will be a Batt. terminal on it. With a dash mounted ign. switch it's on the back of the switch. Run the car on Mag. if possible. The coils require the AC voltage from the Mag. to operate best. An in-line 20 amp. fuse is also a good idea on the pos. wire.
 
Will

The factory starter equip in 1919, the Model T is negative ground. Given yours uses that battery for ignition, the negative ground is fine.

That battery wire should be on the passenger side lower terminal on the coil box, that way you don't risk 6v battery going to the magneto terminal on the lower driver side and wrecking your magnets. You turn the key from 'batt' or 'mag' after you start the T.

If your magneto is working well, then the output could be used for charging a 6v small motorcycle or 'hot shot' type battery with those conversion things that change the AC current of the mag to DC .

Are your headlamps battery or magneto? Lots of folks run battery lights, tail lights and a stop lamp too for safety after dark or in traffic or to meet legal state requirements for road use. If those are wired to the bigger 6v storage battery, then best to keep it and recharge from time to time, as more volts will be needed when running lights, those little magneto chargers won't keep up with big demand.
 

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Hi Will I also have a 15 touring no starter I run a deep cycle 12v Battery wired to the passenger side of the coil box. I just orded a magneto voltage converter for the conversion of AC to DC to charge the battery. I had several T's over the years and just got this one. I am having a blast drive to town for coffee on sunday morning ad to work but soon up here in the northeast that will come to a stop till spring. Frank pkny PS where do you live?
 
Thanks everyone! From what I'm hearing (and read elsewhere too), there really was no provision for a battery in a pre-starter T, other than the battery post coming out of the coil box. Why did Henry provide that post, but not provide a place and wiring for any battery? That's Henry for you. The battery is wired to the battery post. The headlights are now wired to the battery, and there are no electric tail lights or brake lights. I don't plan on driving this baby after dark, but I do think I'm going to rig up some kind of brake light system, as these kids today would have no idea what my left arm hanging downward means! So I guess I'll keep the 6 V storage battery as the brake and headlights will work better with the constant voltage it provides. And it will hold a charge longer. Wondering if I can get another kerosene lamp for the rear passenger side to match the one on the driver side (to keep that nice period appearance), and rig brake light bulbs in the lamp?

It starts up fine on the battery, and as long as I have the spark advanced 5 or 6 clicks, it runs fine on the magneto. But if I retard it any further, it just stalls out. The first thing I plan on doing (after changing the oil) is replacing all the wiring. I'll clean up all the contacts, and check the position of the timer (I have that handy gauge for that task already) and make sure all is bright and tight and right where it needs to be!

Will
 
On Mag, the timing needs to be advance 5-6 notches. It is a long explanation why, but that is the way it works. Same thing if you start it on mag, you need to advance it 5-6 notches or so. If you are adjusting the timer, keep in mind that different types of timers are setup differently. The tools for the timers only apply to one specific type of timer. Make sure you know which one you have first. The brake switch can easily be setup with a button switch mounted on a home made bracket that mounts to the two center bolts on the trans cover. If you need help with it I take a picture for you. Have you tried starting on mag? Bump the timing lever up about 6 notches or so and try it. It is really cool when it starts on mag. Are you sure you have battery bulbs in the headlights? They made mag bulbs also for the cars with no battery and are made to operate at higher voltage.
 
I tried starting it on mag, but I had it fully retarded, and got no results. If it's not supposed to run on mag unless it's advanced 5-6 notches, then I'll leave the timer setting alone, because why fix what ain't broken! I'll try starting it on mag with it advanced 5-6 notches. I won't have my arm broken from a kickback, will I?

I'd appreciate if you could post a pic of your brake switch setup, thanks. I have a spare brake switch from my '29 Model A which works by having the linkage in the switch pulled. So I could mount it rearward of the pedal and attach a link of some sort to the brake pedal.

I don't know what type bulb is in the headlights, but they burned fairly bright connected to the 6V battery. I'd imagine that with the mag bulbs being a higher voltage rating, they wouldn't burn so bright on 6V.
 
Will, Only crank your car on the up stroke and you will never break an arm. If it kicks back it will only jerk it out of your hand. Monte
 
Will,

Here is a wiring diagram for a T without a starter. Note the set of dry cells is the Bat. supply ( 4 dry cells in series at 1.5v each = 6 volts). Also note that the magneto driven head lights are wired in series.

I have a 1911 Buick that I drove a lot all summer. It has a starter added & hidden halogen head lights as well as brake & tail lights -all 12 volt. It has a full sized car battery under the seat that I charged twice all season. I would not get too carried away with magneto charging devices etc. if I were you. About the worst that could happen is that you might have to crank it - or find a willing volunteer.

I also have a 14 T with a starter but no generator - it goes a long way between charges as well.
 

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This bar mounts across the trans cover. There must be two holes drilled to accept the bolts that pass through and hold on the cover. The switch at the end should be facing the other direction so that when you step on the brake, the brake pedal moves to the drivers side of the car and pushes on the switch button. This was faster than pulling the floorboards out of my car to take a picture.
 
JACK:
Just wondering why you don't like the voltage regulator for a magneto charging device. Do you know of any problems with them? I have one on order and thought it would be a good idea?
Thanks Frank pkny
 
Frank,

I have had no personal experience with the mag. charging devices & have heard of few problems with them. I just find a good marine battery will last very well for the type of driving I do. I have heard that if you use your lights much, the mag. charger will not keep up so you are back to running a charger once in a while any way.

The previous owner of my 1911 Buick toured it extensively & kept good records on what he had done to & with the car. In his last year of touring he did one 800 mile tour without needing to recharge the battery. I am still using the same battery.

I guess for my uses the device almost falls into the "if it ain't broke - don't fix it" situation.

Jack Innes
 
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