Battery life

Getting tired of buying a new battery every 2 years for my 1930 Model A.

Will a battery tender extend battery life?

Just seems crazy that a battery thats used only a few times a year will fail so quickly.

I store my Model A inside in a barn that heated in the winter.

Mark
 
I've had the same Group 1 battery in my A since I got it in August of '09. No battery tender.

I generally get 4-7 years out of Sam's Club / Auto-Zone Group 1 six-volts in my old iron.

The A is the only six-volt I have that has an alternator.

What kind of batteries are you buying ?

SC Frank
 
I'm happy with my Optima batteries. I've had two that lasted nine years and one that lasted seven years. Had maintainers on two of them. Oh yea, no corrosion either. They're more expensive but I think the less hassle and longer life is worth it.
 
I've had an Exide in my Special coupe for 7 years and it was just starting to turn over more slowly so I changed to the 3yr. old battery in my doodlebug, now she spins right over. I also have an alternator in the coupe. Generally my batteries last from 7 to 10 years. I use a battery tender in the winter about once a month to hold the charge.
 
I have never used a battery tender, only what the generator charges, no shutoff switch, I do have a diode cutout, when I used ordinary batterys I got 7-9 years, the only batterys I got short life out of is the "ford script" original looking batterys, they had trouble after 3 years, I now have an Optima battery, 14 years, no problems even if the car sits for 3-6 months, even after 14 years it can still drive the car on electric only for 20 feet no problem.

I was very dissapointed with the repro script batterys, a used battery that someone else gave up on and I got off the "bad" battery pile lasted longer(that "junk" battery lasted 5 years)

Tell us about how your car is set up, your use, what kind of battery you use, how you treat the battery, for me neglect has worked well---I know the battery must still be there-the car cranks

What charge rate do you have the generator set to?
For me a 14-15 amp rate works, it gives me a +1 amp with the Quartz Halogen headlight bulbs, if I go on a long drive I just turn on the headlights to prevent overcharging after 40 min of driving or so.

A battery is a chemical reaction, cold winter storage slows down the reaction

A stock model A shouldn't have any draw on the battery sitting.
 
I have been using Farm and Fleet 6 volt batteries for twenty years. I have been able to count on five years service life. I do use Tom Wessenberg's voltage regulators in the three cars I am using. Gar Williams
 
I've had the same Group 1 battery in my A since I got it in August of '09. No battery tender.

I generally get 4-7 years out of Sam's Club / Auto-Zone Group 1 six-volts in my old iron.

The A is the only six-volt I have that has an alternator.

What kind of batteries are you buying ?

SC Frank
That last 2 battery's a purchased were from TSC both lasted 2 years then they wont take a charge.

My A has a 6V alt shows about 10amp charging driving most of the time.

Think I will invest in a tender and give that a try.

Mark
 
Test6.jpg


This is my ammeter while driving down the road, light on or lights off, or just setting at a stop light. An electronic voltage regulator keeps the battery charged without overcharging or undercharging it. I bought my battery from a junk yard 8 years ago for a couple dollars, and can't find any date or date code on it, so I don't know how old it actually is. I'm sure it was in use a couple years before being brought to the recycling yard. I don't use a battery tender and have only checked the water once or twice and didn't have to add.

Do you use an alternator or original generator?
What is your charge rate, if you don't use a regulator?
Has the battery been drained to dead due to a short or the lights left on?
How much do you have to crank the engine before it starts?
How long are your drives?
Do you have to add water to the battery, and what kind of water gets added?

I read years ago that each time the battery is drained dead and then recharged you have just lost 10% of the battery life. Lead/acid batteries like to be kept charged, without being overcharged.
 
Down here in Texas, most people can only get 1 year-3 years out of a 6v battery. I don't know if it's because of the extreme always changing weather that we have, or something else. I know when my car was 6v, on two separate occasions I had two batteries go bad after 3 months in two different cars. I really don't think they are making 6v batteries like they use to.
 
If your normal driving shows 10 Amps of charge, then you are over charging the battery and causing the life to be short.

The picture of Tom's ammeter while driving shows why he gets a long life from his battery and you get a short life.

My 6 volt alternator delivers about 1-2 amps during a normal drive.

Marc
 
If you have an altenator, there is a slight amount of current being drawn by the altenator when the car is turned off. You can prevent this by adding a fuse and pulling it each time you turn off the car. Have a Fleet Farm battery that is about 8 years old and still works great. Also check the cable connections on the battery as they do corrode over the years and reduce the amount of current going into the battery for charging and when trying to start. Unless you live where it is extremely hot and dry a battery should last about five years that is why they have 60 month warranties.
 
The care and feeding of lead-acid batteries is not very difficult but several things – other than quality of manufacturing - can shorten their life, namely plate sulfation, under charging, over charging, high discharge rates, electrolyte stratification, extreme temperatures, and low electrolyte levels.

The typical lead-acid battery consists of alternating positive and negative plates, separated by thin non-conductive (but permeable and porous) separators. Typically (for automotive lead-acid batteries) the positive plates consist of a lead-dioxide (PbO2 for inquiring minds) paste impressed into a lead grid while the negative plates are formed from a porous (high surface area) lead (Pb) paste, also impressed into a lead grid. The separators keep the alternating +ive and –ive plates from shorting against each other (e.g., during periods of high discharge rates when internal resistance causes heating of the battery and bowing of the plates; or from the growth of deposits on the surface of the plates during repetitive battery cycles).

Without going too deeply into the specific chemical reaction, during discharge the lead in the –ive plates combines with the electrolyte (sulfuric acid) to form lead-sulfate and hydrogen and release electrons, while the +ive plate lead-dioxide combines with the sulfuric acid, hydrogen and electrons to form lead-sulfate and water. Basically, as the battery discharges, the plates turn to lead-sulfate, the electrolyte turns to water and the flow of electrons from the negative plates to the positive plates makes your starter go roundy-roundy (that’s an engineering technical term). [This presumes electron-flow theory of electricity; if you subscribe to the “hole-flow” theory of electricity then the holes are created at the +ive plate and flow to the –ive plate; and no, your starter won’t rotate in the other direction. Good grief!]

Charging the battery reverses the process, resulting – in the perfect world – in lots of lead and lead-dioxide, no lead sulfate, and fully refreshed sulfuric acid electrolyte. However, as in every process, nothing is perfect, so over time the plates tend to become increasingly sulfated (i.e., the charging process fails to completely reverse the lead- or lead-dioxide to lead-sulfate process). Additionally, mechanical vibration (as you bounce down our increasingly pot-holed roads with your marginally performing – or non-existent – shock absorbers) and repeated flexing of the plates (from thermal cycles induced by alternate deep discharges and subsequent recharging as you try to troubleshoot your non-starting engine before realizing you forgot to turn on the ignition key) cause the lead- or lead-dioxide paste to flake off the plates and settle to the bottom of the battery case, where – eventually – it will short out the bottom of the cell plates.

Therefore, the following is the generally recommended care of automotive lead acid batteries, realizing that – as with everything – you pretty much get what you pay for, so the manufacturing quality (not always reflected in the price) of the battery will often be the determining factor in battery life:

1. Keep them clean by wiping up any dirt, debris or spilled acid, and keep the battery terminals (and battery terminal to battery post connection) clean. In this regard the outside of the terminals can be coated with one of the commercially available battery post sprays or petroleum jelly; use of regular grease is frowned upon although I suspect there are any number of automotive batteries running around with chassis grease smeared all over the terminals);

2. Keep them charged (prolonged periods of discharge will tend to permanently fix the lead sulfate in the plates);

3. Keep the electrolyte level above the plate tops (by adding distilled water, inasmuch as tap water, with its high mineral and chlorine content, will – over time – tend to degrade the performance of the plates);

4. Avoid extreme discharge rates, which tends to overheat the battery and cause physical damage to the plates;

5. Avoid overcharging, which tends to (there is some disassociation of water into hydrogen and oxygen during charging) reduce the electrolyte level, concentrate the remaining electrolyte (i.e., increase the concentration of sulfuric acid, which leads to increased plate corrosion) and either expose the plates to air or otherwise damage the battery;

6. Avoid extreme mechanical shock, although conversely, moderate mechanical agitation does help mix up the electrolyte, which avoids electrolyte stratification which can result from long periods of non-use of the battery and – again – result in damage to the plates.

For long periods of inactivity, you might consider disconnecting the battery and/or hooking up a trickle (low amperage) charger. On my tractor (my Model A gets too much use) I use a simple timer to give a small (15 minute) freshening charge once a day except when I’m using the tractor every day. In the event you remove the battery from your A, place it on a piece of cardboard or wood rather than allow it to sit on the concrete floor.

Speaking of disconnecting your battery (we were speaking of this weren’t we?) the recommended procedure is to disconnect the ground first and connect the ground last, based on if you accidently short out the non-grounded terminal while removing/reinstalling it, you won’t have a path to ground if you have already removed/not yet installed the ground cable.

And, I suppose, it would be negligent not to address the modern-era safety precautions of working around lead-acid batteries, namely – before lifting the battery access cover in the floorboard of your favorite Model A – extinguishing all sources of open flame within 250 feet, donning OSHA-approved hearing protection, high-impact safety goggles, face shield, full-face respirator, acid-proof rubberized apron, acid-proof gloves and attaching a grounding strap to one of your more accessible bodily appendages (ouch!).

[Disclaimer: the above information derives from having served in submarines during a significant portion of the 1960’s, 1970’s and 1980’s, where the average lead-acid battery cell – if placed alongside a Model A – would extend above the roofline and where two such cells weigh about what a coupe weighs. With no disrespect to my Italian great-grandfather and great-grandmother, that’s what – to paraphrase an Alka-Seltzer commercial – would be described as “Mama Mia - that’s a one big battery cell.” And even nuclear submarines need batteries, else whilest out in the big pond and you suffer a loss of reactor power (generally the result of a training drill, but occasionally the real thing) you don’t have electrical power to restart the reactor. Also, submarine batteries give off-watch electricians something to do – namely hopping cells; that is, measuring battery cell specific gravities while crawling along for a couple of hours crouched over in the battery tank – while everyone else who isn’t on watch or in the rack, is in crew’s mess watching a flick and eating ice cream and sticky buns. And, lastly, it wasn’t my intention to recommend disregarding reasonable safety precautions while tending to one’s automotive – or submarine, if you have one – battery, but sometimes it makes you wonder how any of us managed to make it this far in life intact.]

Zzzaaap!

[Sorry for the long post; slow day out here on the left coast.]
 
I would also install a battery cut-off switch to eliminate any possible drain on the battery while just sitting.

I have one of these and I am on year 8 of current battery. Plus I use a Battery Minder (but I think the disconnect is more important for long life).
 
Test6.jpg


This is my ammeter while driving down the road, light on or lights off, or just setting at a stop light. An electronic voltage regulator keeps the battery charged without overcharging or undercharging it. I bought my battery from a junk yard 8 years ago for a couple dollars, and can't find any date or date code on it, so I don't know how old it actually is. I'm sure it was in use a couple years before being brought to the recycling yard. I don't use a battery tender and have only checked the water once or twice and didn't have to add.

Do you use an alternator or original generator?
What is your charge rate, if you don't use a regulator?
Has the battery been drained to dead due to a short or the lights left on?
How much do you have to crank the engine before it starts?
How long are your drives?
Do you have to add water to the battery, and what kind of water gets added?

I read years ago that each time the battery is drained dead and then recharged you have just lost 10% of the battery life. Lead/acid batteries like to be kept charged, without being overcharged.


Tom brings up a good point. I have been researching a product I may use in or fleet operations just to save a few thousand bucks a year.
Apparently Xtreme charge from PulseTech Products Corp can reduce the amount of sulfate-induced corrosion,on the plates. As well they can supply a unit called the PowerPulse which when attached to the battery in service, induces a micro pulse using the batteries current. However I believe this is only available in 12 Volt.
You might check out thier site if just for the chargers (which do come in 6 Volt)
 
;)My 28 Model A has a Carquest battery 620 cca, was installed oct. 2007, still doing fine, If I'm not driving it much I'll remove the ground cable and hook up my battery tender. I figure 5 years is a good life for the battery. I'm also using the 60 amp alt.

Jim Norris
 
i replace my battery every five years even if its still good. same thing with my modern iron,
and i have always used interstate with good success. no tender just kill switch
 
I'm still always surprised at the short life some get from their batteries.. I'm a firm believer that how the battery is handled when new is one key to its longevity.. I prefer to get lead-acid batteries empty, which can be tough to do today.. I want to fill them and fully charge them slowly.. It seems that over the years of doing this stuff that batteries that are installed without a proper initial charge have a shorter life.. When topping one off always use distilled water.. I'm not a fan of tenders but I am of slow chargers.. Before winter storage[ we have winter here] I top them off and slow charge them,, thats it.. I see batteries everyday that are 10-12 yrs old.. All that said,, a battery is like anything mechanical,, it can fail at any time.. Interestingly,, recently the old 'A' started right up as usual for my daily morning trip to the diner and then immediately died.. Nothing,, not a single electron could be found.. This battery was only about 6-8 years old and just went open..
 
If you do buy a "battery tender", be aware that they are not all created equal. BATTERY TENDER (trademark) ones are much better made and cost more that BATTERY BUTLER (trademark).
BATTERY TENDER also comes with a pigtail connector that will let you keep the battery cover on your Model A in place and still attach it.
Would highly reccommend that you spring for the extra bucks and get a BATTERY TENDER. John
 
Napa Smiths battery clinic reminded me of the MARC National Tour a few years ago. We had an opportunity to go through the Deka Battery plant. Very interesting (and dirty) work. There was a lot more to batterys than I had thought.
 
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