Babbitt vs insert bearings

D

DWMOONEY

Junior Member
Disassembled my 1931 A engine today. Looking for opinions which way to go back together, Babbiitt or inserts on the crank mains and rods? Anyone out thier changed to insert with the cost of inserts and machine work vs pouring Babbitt?
Thank You Dan
 
The machinist who built my engine, a fellow I've known for years, told me he would do it either way, the cost was about the same.

I thought I may go for a high compression head in the future so I went with inserts...
 
In my opinion, Babbitt is far more tolerable handling fine impurities in the oil than the shell type bearings. A full flow type oil filter arrangement which is mounted on the side of your valve cover, will alleviate some of the fine dirt to the bearings, but not all.
 
It is simple.

Both work fine when done by experienced detail oriented machinists.

Babbitt is more forgiving should a failure occur and can handle big chunks of dirt and be happy. Babbitt usually gives warning it is failing and lets you drive more many miles.

Inserts fail quick and may take the crank and or the block with them.

If the work is done right then you do not worry about failure.

Done right means a crank machined and balanced to high standards. Rods that are weight matched at each end.

There may be some merrit to going with insert (new rods)rods even if you do babbitt mains.

Discuss this all with whom you choose to have do the work for you.
 
Finding an engine rebuilder that has the talent for renewing Babbitt is becoming more of a challenge. If you have access to such a machinist, go back with how it was originally. Otherwise, inserts may be worth considering.
 
All good comments but, nobody has addressed the cost. Generally it costs 1500-2000$ more to install inserts than babbitt to build the engine. This cost is because the rods alone cost 700$ and the original rods are not used. Insert main bearings are 100$ or more and machine work is costly. Inserts are not plug and play.

As you can tell, I prefer babbitt and,like doing babbitt bearings.
 
Ok let's Ck the cost..
An AER short block with inserts is 2300.. Isn't that right in line with a Babbitt motor? 1500 to 2k more? I don't see that difference

To the OP inserts are the way to go in this day and age.
 
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I used to do inserts but don't now. I think babbitt is fine and it has done so for 100 years in Fords and other engines. If you could get babbitt bearings done around every corner, you would never consider inserts. Availability is the mitigating factor. Most would like to be able to recon their own bottom end and inserts afford this once the initial work is done. The problem of catastrophic failure is the worst of loosing a bearing and the entire engine, ie: crank, block, is lost. With babbitt, catastrophic failure means repouring the bearings and possibly regrinding the crank. As for durability, 100 years is a long time and I find engines with cranks that have never been touched. Pretty durable in my opinion.
 
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James Rogers said:
I used to do inserts but don't now. I think babbitt is fine and it has done so for 100 years in Fords and other engines. If you could get babbitt bearings done around every corner, you would never consider inserts. Availability is the mitigating factor. Most would like to be able to recon their own bottom end and inserts afford this once the initial work is done. The problem of catastrophic failure is the worst of loosing a bearing and the entire engine, ie: crank, block, is lost. With babbitt, catastrophic failure means repouring the bearings and possibly regrinding the crank. As for durability, 100 years is a long time and I find engines with cranks that have never been touched. Pretty durable in my opinion.
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But you can't get them done at every corner and as time passes the QUALITY availability is becoming less and less. the wooden wheel was invented in 3500 BC but has evolved over time.. Would you remove your fancy aluminum wheel and put a wooden one on then drive 100 mph up the turnpike:eek:.
Good quality babbiting is becoming harder to find and many many that are still doing it the quality lacks resulting in engine failure, oil leaks and then the owner has his foot in his *** having to rebabitt it again and hope the pour is quality. .. I call these" Babbitt gods" and I won't be held hostage by them.. Your one of the few that still produce a good Babbitt product but your just one person in one part of the world . It's nice for the average joe to be able to repair his own engine easier with inserts..Babbitt is a thing of the past IMO and the lack of the quality places that do it are fewer and fewer...
 

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In my own cars I have been using inserts since 1985. Mainly because I can do all the work my self. My Sport Coupe has 23,000 miles on inserts. It still runs fine. No I do not use a filter, but I do use good detergent oil.

I also like babbitt if the right babbitt is used and poured at the right temp, and penned at the right temp. But that is rare now days. So for me I will stay with inserts.
 
James Rogers said:
I used to do inserts but don't now. I think babbitt is fine and it has done so for 100 years in Fords and other engines. If you could get babbitt bearings done around every corner, you would never consider inserts. Availability is the mitigating factor. Most would like to be able to recon their own bottom end and inserts afford this once the initial work is done. The problem of catastrophic failure is the worst of loosing a bearing and the entire engine, ie: crank, block, is lost. With babbitt, catastrophic failure means repouring the bearings and possibly regrinding the crank. As for durability, 100 years is a long time and I find engines with cranks that have never been touched. Pretty durable in my opinion.
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Agree!!!!!!!!
 
My high compression OHV conversion will absolutely have inserts. Babbitt isn't meant for high compression engines.

"Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?"
 
I have '31 engine with inserts and a B block with Babbitt. I drive both cars hard and they're equipped with all of the go fast goodies. Quite frankly, they both perform as advertised. As a side note, I was able to ride the Durango-Silverton narrow gauge to the Tacoma power plant on the Animas River and saw a generator that was over 100 years old using Babbitt! I was informed that the Durango roundhouse still has the ability to pour Babbitt for the locomotives.
 
Chris Haynes said:
My high compression OHV conversion will absolutely have inserts. Babbitt isn't meant for high compression engines.

"Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?"
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Might be worth reading from Jim Brierley who has literally written the book on speed and the 4 banger;

"Just got back from the salt where we upped the V4/blown fuel lakester record from 147 to 161.992. Several V4 records were shattered, some dating from the 80's. My engine is an early '32 B with full oil pressure, C crank and the same babbitt mains that I have been running since the 70's. The head is a Cook rocker arm, early 60's Buick turbo pushing 9 psi boost at 5800 rpm thru the last timing light."

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45311
 
Chris Haynes said:
My high compression OHV conversion will absolutely have inserts. Babbitt isn't meant for high compression engines.

"Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?"
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I wonder if you could have convinced 50 years of Sprint Drivers, and Owners.

Don Lockwood told me one of the race cars he knew ran 14 to 1 compression. It was either a Gullivan "Spelling".?, or the RA-JO Duel over head cam, and there Hemi combustion chamber, which is a one half a ball.

They had problems, but Babbitt bearings wasn't one of them.

Herm.
 
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