Babbitt Material

[JP31]

I asked a local shop that does babbitt work about what material he uses for his babbitt jobs. He responded "Number two genuine Babbitt and number seven and yes it has lead. Lead is for cooling and lubrication" Please let me know your thoughts and comments about his response.

 

[BudP]

Here are some quotes from "The Model A Engine" by William and Paul Mcree:

"No one should use lead based babbitt to rebabbitt a Model A engine."

"Insist on the use of a XXXX nickel base babbitt for your Model A engine."

"XXXX nickel base babbitt is suitable for both mains and rods. It is a very tough tin-base bearing alloy. The dense fine-grained structure, high Brinell hardness and special combination of ingredients in xxxx nickel base babbitt give it the properties necessary to resist all but the most severe punishment. Since the Model A has no oil filter and Model As are driven harder now than was ever intended, this babbitt is a must."

If some other babbitt is used, it should meet these specifications:
Brinell Hardness ........24
Compression Strength....13,625 psi at 10% deformation
Pouring temperature.....800 F to 950 F
Liquid at.............669 F"

The foregoing quotations appear on pages 19 and 20.

 

[Mark in MT]

The #2 alloy is good, I wouldn't use the #7. You don't want any lead in the Babbitt. Come to Missoula to day for our Big Sky A's club seminar on Babbitt pouring and boring. I will show the local group how to pour new babbitt and how to set up and use the Kwik Way line bore bar. Lots of them have never seen it done and were interested in the process.

 

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Any mix of babbitt can be had.

I have used Grade #2---Grade #3------4XXXX-----Ford Babbitt-----Nickelite

Because of the higher content of Anitmony, Ford Babbitt, and Grade #3 machines dirtier then the others.

We use more Grade #2 then the others.

No Matter what you use, It Has to be PEENED, Correctly!!!!!

 

[Kevin in NJ]

I would be clarification on how he does the babbitt.

The grade 2 babbitt if specified as below will not have any lead in it. A lead based babbitt is not to be used in an engine that is actually going to be driven. The lead babbitts are real easy to pour.

Peening is a big issue and is commonly not done or not done properly. If the babbitt is not tight to the saddle then it will break. If there are some engines done then try pressing the edges and see if the babbitt moves a tiny bit. On a used engine oil will squish out some. Properly peened engines will have tight babbitt with no movement.

Melting, babbitt mix, and babbitt reuse are other questions that need to be asked. If the guy reheats the babbitt and starts with big chunks then there will be other issues. Gets kind of complicated. If you can see large crystally things on the fresh poured babbitt then there might be some issues with babbitt reuse and melt management.

Babbitt types

In the end, there is the mix between how you plan on driving the car and how much money you have in your wallet. Babbitt can be forgiving and some bad babbitt jobs can go for quite a while. Though a local shop was pouring babbitt that was failing in under 60 miles (that was back in the mid 70's). It is essential that you spend the money to have the crank ground accurately and all the parts reasonably well balanced. Some are way way off.

 

[MikeK]

My thoughts and comments about his response? Who knows what mess of returns is in his pot. He doesn't seem to. Keep looking.

 

[JP31]

So I took it that he was using mostly the Genuine #2 and adding a small amount of lead based materials creating his own blend. He told me they have been doing babbitt work for more than 80 years.

 

[colin1928]

I want to know more about the peening of Babbitt so I may ask the right questions next time I need Babbitt work is there a correct time or temperature and is it peened with shot or what
I know this important and may be a long story but if 1 of the pro here could explain it I would appreciate
Colin

 

[Mike V. Florida]

So I took it that he was using mostly the Genuine #2 and adding a small amount of lead based materials creating his own blend. He told me they have been doing babbitt work for more than 80 years.

Then he has been doing it incorrectly for the model A for 80 years. An engine that only runs a few minutes a year to get it in and out of a trailer will be fine with lead babbitt.

Reading the posts here from engine builders of the highest caliber ony re-enforces what i have read in the past.

If it were me I would move on to another shop, but that's me, I trust the guys here.

 

[James Rogers]

This is exactly why I never use old babbitt. You can never tell what has been added to it to concoct a specialty mix formed out of an old wives tale and dangerously incorrect. I even remember an old builder on the other board that used to put silver solder in his to harden it. Hard babbitt is bad babbitt, Lead makes it hard.
The mix I use is specially made and is formulated at 86/7/7% with the antimony actually being at 6.75% and .25% trace elements.