Babbit woes

Rubatoguy

Rubatoguy

Member
Taking apart my Dad's B engine that was rebuilt by a very large antique engine rebuilder in the early 80's, never ran correctly, (overheating & bad oil pump install) then sat for 20 years. The engine maybe ran 10 miles.

Taking off the rod caps, this is what I saw. I take it that these are not salvageable.

Comments?
For a touring engine, is the consensus to update to sleeve bearings and updated oil delivery (semi or full oil pressure system)
 

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Should have stopped engine at first sign of overheating,corrected the cause and you wouldn't have this situation.Radiator,timing, incorrect break-in probable cause. Next rebuild be very carefull on restart.
 
Properly done both babbitt and inserts will last a long time, babbitt will be more tolerant of dirt and lubrication problems, and a failure of babbitt usually just damages the babbitt, an insert failure many times will damage the crankshaft and if it spins the rod, or block

Original factory babbitt looks much different than what you have ---the pic is a nos B rear cap --a little dirty and shelf worn, but a good example of what it should look like.

Babbitt is forever ---it will always be able to be replaced, with inserts you have to be able to buy them, many of the insert conversions are using inserts from 40 year old engines --or the custom ones from Rich, once the rod or block are machined for inserts it is hard to change for different inserts

There is no substitute for proper restoration, many modern "improvements" are used as a crutch instead of proper restoration to original specifications.
 

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Humble opinion:

I guess, like so many well experienced Model A & B owners will advise:

1. "Very Large" engine rebuilder says a lot in today's world of many careless employees in a large shop.

2. "Who" you get determines "What" you get!

Not too different with marriage -- it is not the applied make up, the low cut blouse, & the tight short skirt that always counts a few years down the road -- it is what's inside the dress that counts.

When properly done, both Babbitt and/or inserts can function very successfully during the length of time it takes to wear out several Model A mufflers if maintained properly.

Hope this helps.
 
Hi Kurt In NJ.

After reviewing my message, & later yours, looks like you intimated the same advice -- "without" getting the fairer sex involved. LOL
 
Rubatoguy said:
Taking off the rod caps, this is what I saw. I take it that these are not salvageable.

Comments?
For a touring engine, is the consensus to update to sleeve bearings and updated oil delivery (semi or full oil pressure system)
Click to expand...

How worn is the babbitt really? With between 2- 10 miles on it, I would think it could scrapped to level and reused once you get good connecting rods.
 
The bearings you pictured can be salvaged if there were shim pacs when set up, they aren't broken out. there is a run in compound that will smooth in babbit and dissipates but I don't remember the name. When it is back together take it extremely easy and make sure things are right. And don't overheat it.
 
I wonder if the "very large antique engine rebuilder" was the one in Portland that was known to take on any job, whether they knew how to do it or not. I recall a conversation with a guy there in which it quickly became evident that he planned to learn on the job using my engine. No, thanks.

Otherwise, your engine may be salvageable pending a complete dismantling and very careful examination of the fitment and wear pattern established during its short life. Personally, I would stick with babbitt, provided it was done properly. That is the key to it all.
 
You could try to save them. Insert a 1/4" drill into the dipper and twist it by hand to even up the edges of the dipper hole. File a 45-60 degree bevel along the parting line on both the rod and caps. Extend that V bevel around the ends. The end babbitt looks thin to me. Place the rod and cap on the crank loose and measure the end play. Between 006 and .012. The grooves look like they were done by hand with a Dremel tool. Nothing wrong with that in and of itself. Might open up the grooves a touch yourself with a Dremel tool.
Or, I would call Bill Barlow in Bend and get a new set of rods exchange from him. Bil's phone has been posted here and you could probably find it in a search.
Problem is, if you are not happy with the rods, the mains were probably done with the same quality work. Bill will exchange main caps but the block babbit has to be done at his place. If you keep them, bevel the front and center mains all the way across, and the rear main to about 1/2" from the rear.
Measure everything, twice.
I too have always wondered how you can install an oil pump incorrectly.
 
Okay, for the curious, I dug through my papers and found my Dad's correspondence. (The re-builder was in LA not Portland.) It seems that when he got the engine, he heard a knock and took it to a local re-builder who found that the oil pump housing was fractured at a point just above the block. Also found was a center main bearing with at least six-thousands clearance, and a front main oil passage blocked with a rag.
 
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