B Pillar Two Door Wagon Shake
- Thread starter Jwawhite
- Start date
Daves55Sedan
Well-known member
Open the door, grab the pillar and try to jiggle it back and forth. It should not move at all. The connection there at the top is a series of resistance welds. It should be very solid at the top.
The bottom could be a different story. These cars were built with a 16 gage formed channel turned with the legs of the channel downward. The factory outer rocker panel was actually placed over the top of that channel (serving as the structure for the door sill plate). In other words, there are two layers of metal along the door sill. The 18ga channel which is completely hidden underneath the 16 ga outer rocker panel. But I've seen a lot of these rusted through so bad that the channel no longer has structural integrity and if they are bad, you can bet that what is left of the inner and outer rockers is ten times weaker. There could actually be a disconnect between the rear quarter at the bottom of the door jamb (where it curves) and the structural channel that that corner was factory welded to.
It seems like if there is any shaking it would be more noticeable if the connection was broken or rusted away at the top. If the bottom connection is questionable, the whole door would be shaking along with it. It does not seem likely that the top connection would be bad though.
The bottom could be a different story. These cars were built with a 16 gage formed channel turned with the legs of the channel downward. The factory outer rocker panel was actually placed over the top of that channel (serving as the structure for the door sill plate). In other words, there are two layers of metal along the door sill. The 18ga channel which is completely hidden underneath the 16 ga outer rocker panel. But I've seen a lot of these rusted through so bad that the channel no longer has structural integrity and if they are bad, you can bet that what is left of the inner and outer rockers is ten times weaker. There could actually be a disconnect between the rear quarter at the bottom of the door jamb (where it curves) and the structural channel that that corner was factory welded to.
It seems like if there is any shaking it would be more noticeable if the connection was broken or rusted away at the top. If the bottom connection is questionable, the whole door would be shaking along with it. It does not seem likely that the top connection would be bad though.
Jwawhite
Well-known member
Dave I've been looking closely at the B pillar drivers side. In the past, when I removed the interior rear window frame and panels for new rear window weatherstripping, I took a close look at the inside of the exterior sheet metal, and quarter panels. I noticed repairs at both lowers behind the rear wheel sheetmetal, the rest appeared original. I painted the lower insides with Rustolem and did not see any sheet metal issues at the lower B panel. But, I've found this and cannot explain why, I think the Factory did not splice at this location.
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frank long island
Well-known member
that is a crack from the body flexing and would explain your shake the factory would'nt splice under the moulding that panel would have been stamped as one with jamb and welded to inner panel if you look along the interior edge you will see dimples from the welder you will have to pull the interior to see that the crack runs through the window opening you should be able to see that connection point also you may want to ck your body mounts in that area also i would ck the floor where the mount is also
Daves55Sedan
Well-known member
On my '55 Courier, the entire rear fender from top of rocker panel up to the roof rain gutter and from doorjamb back to the taillight is a one-piece stamped sheet. There are no seams there for a 2-door car. I suspect your wagon may have been in a side collision and the body shop cut out the damage and replaced it with a factory replacement panel decades ago when they were available.
I suggest removing the doorsill step plate and peeling back the floorcovering where the B-pillar meets the doorsill. Inspect all around and underneath to see if you can detect movement around there.
I suggest removing the doorsill step plate and peeling back the floorcovering where the B-pillar meets the doorsill. Inspect all around and underneath to see if you can detect movement around there.
KULTULZ
Well-known member
The stress crack shown on your photo is at the joining of the latch pillar and upper pillar.
See Ill-
Most likely as mentioned, it is a bad body mount or bad earlier collision repair.
How well does the door hang and latch?
See Ill-
Most likely as mentioned, it is a bad body mount or bad earlier collision repair.
How well does the door hang and latch?
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Jwawhite
Well-known member
K, where do you get this info?? I have a shop manual that has limited information on the wagon! So I am thinking the crack ends at the bottom of the upper pillar, lower area of quarter windows...
what led to looking this area over was when I noticed the upper pillar window quarter area shaking when the door was closed. I've been saving major door adj for last, the upper frame of door is off the body, wind and water come in at top. I've adj the latch inwards, door flush with body, and haven't touched the hinges to move door inwards at top. Door closes fine but when the road surface is uneven, I think the door rattles against the body.
Just an abundance of knowledge from this site and members.
what led to looking this area over was when I noticed the upper pillar window quarter area shaking when the door was closed. I've been saving major door adj for last, the upper frame of door is off the body, wind and water come in at top. I've adj the latch inwards, door flush with body, and haven't touched the hinges to move door inwards at top. Door closes fine but when the road surface is uneven, I think the door rattles against the body.
Just an abundance of knowledge from this site and members.
KULTULZ
Well-known member
Well, the correct FORD Shop Manual is essential but additional info is found in the MPC and assembly manuals. Being an old fart being around cars for fifty years helps also...
It sounds like you have a major door opening failure. Check the body mounts under the door opening first. If the insulators go bad, the body will flex on the frame resulting in what you have.
EDIT - ADDITIONAL INFO
Here are two photos of body off frame to give you idea of body mount positions-
It sounds like you have a major door opening failure. Check the body mounts under the door opening first. If the insulators go bad, the body will flex on the frame resulting in what you have.
EDIT - ADDITIONAL INFO
Here are two photos of body off frame to give you idea of body mount positions-
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KULTULZ
Well-known member
No, it was upgraded at some point.
SOURCE HERE- http://www.hotrod.com/articles/repro-frame-under-our-1955-1956-ford-part-2/#
FATMAN FABRICATIONS -http://www.fatmanfab.com/ - came out with a custom made frame 55/56.
SOURCE HERE- http://www.hotrod.com/articles/repro-frame-under-our-1955-1956-ford-part-2/#
FATMAN FABRICATIONS -http://www.fatmanfab.com/ - came out with a custom made frame 55/56.
KULTULZ
Well-known member
BTW oldmics-
Did you catch this post - http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Topic134571.aspx - concerning 56 frame weakness?
ALSO- 56 Replacement Floor Pans and Heat Shields
- http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Topic128963-1.aspx -
Did you catch this post - http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Topic134571.aspx - concerning 56 frame weakness?
ALSO- 56 Replacement Floor Pans and Heat Shields
- http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Topic128963-1.aspx -
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Daves55Sedan
Well-known member
I still say, this is a result of collision damage which was subsequently repaired by a fly-by-nite body shop.
Notice the body parts illustration above showing part #'s 28212, 28300 & 28216. These parts are welded together, placed behind the door jamb where the latch is. They were factory resistance welded to the door jamb, floor and roof.
My guess is, when the body shop cut off the damaged fender, they probably cut off part of these structural braces or damaged them so they could not be welded back on to the replacement lower door jamb. Without the joining of the structure to the doorjamb, the assembly is greatly weakened. AND, if the door is not adjusted perfectly, it makes the problem that much worse.
JWA, I suggest taking apart the interior at that location and inspect for missing weld connections there.
Also, if the door does need adjustment, don't get it too tight to the body at the front as this will increase the stress at both the hinges and the latch mechanism. Just because the door leaks water doesn't mean the door is not adjusted right. Get better door gaskets (not the set you can get from Dennis Carpenter, etc).
Notice the body parts illustration above showing part #'s 28212, 28300 & 28216. These parts are welded together, placed behind the door jamb where the latch is. They were factory resistance welded to the door jamb, floor and roof.
My guess is, when the body shop cut off the damaged fender, they probably cut off part of these structural braces or damaged them so they could not be welded back on to the replacement lower door jamb. Without the joining of the structure to the doorjamb, the assembly is greatly weakened. AND, if the door is not adjusted perfectly, it makes the problem that much worse.
JWA, I suggest taking apart the interior at that location and inspect for missing weld connections there.
Also, if the door does need adjustment, don't get it too tight to the body at the front as this will increase the stress at both the hinges and the latch mechanism. Just because the door leaks water doesn't mean the door is not adjusted right. Get better door gaskets (not the set you can get from Dennis Carpenter, etc).
Jwawhite
Well-known member
What is 28300? I do not know where this part is mounted, is it welded behind 28216? For support? The crack is at the butt of 28212 and 28216, I'll need to look behind the panels to determine what's going on. Next month the seats come out and the panels in front, of rear wheel, for some heat and sound deadener. Will take a closer look then with comparison photos of L and R interior sides, then out for mig welding and bracing? Thanks Dave, will leave the door as is until repairs.
Daves55Sedan
Well-known member
Scroll up and look at the Body Parts sheet metal illustration that KULTULZ posted. You will see that each piece has a part # assigned to it.
Jwawhite
Well-known member
Dave I'm not clear, 28300 is just floating in space, does the piece go behind 28216? When the interior is out I'll look at it more closely.
Installing the Ram Grommets I took a Torque wrench to the body bolt and nut just behind front wheel, wasn't close to 21 lbs, book is 15 to 30... new body grommets are there.
Installing the Ram Grommets I took a Torque wrench to the body bolt and nut just behind front wheel, wasn't close to 21 lbs, book is 15 to 30... new body grommets are there.
KULTULZ
Well-known member
This is a PARTS EXPLOSION ILLUSTRATION.
The ILL is showing SERVICE REPLACEMENT PARTS. Parts 28212 - 28300 - 28216 are welded together to form a complete B-PILLAR (or latch pillar), or the parts shown are used separately (with present undamaged parts) to effect a correct repair.