B block Q...

[hardtimes]

First attempt:
Hey Milton: HereIyam! I think...

Ok, Jim B..if your around and others. This is a B with new babbit in the mains/rods .010. It has No ridge! I can find no cracks..thus far.
My first inquiry : have you guys ever seen this(brazing) work done to the exhausts? Now the real Q, from what you see..can new seats be practically put into this block?
BTW..this block was done(braze) like this(JMO) for OHV useage..what say you?

 

[just plain bill]

First attempt:
Hey Milton: HereIyam! I think...

Ok, Jim B..if your around and others. This is a B with new babbit in the mains/rods .010. It has No ridge! I can find no cracks..thus far.
My first inquiry : have you guys ever seen this(brazing) work done to the exhausts? Now the real Q, from what you see..can new seats be practically put into this block?
BTW..this block was done(braze) like this(JMO) for OHV useage..what say you?

I have a B block for a Riley 4 port and it has plugs brazed into the intake valve openings with clearance holes for pushrods. I'm not familiar with an overhead that would have only the exhaust valves blanked off. You can probably research hard seat OD's on the internet or go to your local automotive machine shop and ask.

 

[hardtimes]

Bill,
There's more 'evidence' that some OHV head was once on this block,i.e.- large one piece side cover has the brass oil fitings and the B pan has some 'interesting' plumbing for OHV(I think)! NO oil piping INSIDE the valve chamber. Bill, was that knowledge(inside valve chamber oil plumbing)always available or later block tech?
What was the difference betw common oil plumbing practices , early on; babbit vs insert/ drilled crank vs stock crank??

 

[just plain bill]

Bill,
There's more 'evidence' that some OHV head was once on this block,i.e.- large one piece side cover has the brass oil fitings and the B pan has some 'interesting' plumbing for OHV(I think)! NO oil piping INSIDE the valve chamber. Bill, was that knowledge(inside valve chamber oil plumbing)always available or later block tech?
What was the difference betw common oil plumbing practices , early on; babbit vs insert/ drilled crank vs stock crank??

The ordinary practice was to plug the oil outlet into the oil gallery and take the oil from the pump at the fitting in the side on the block and route that, usually through a filter, then into the oil gallery through a hole tapped into the side plate. The usual way to route oil to rocker arms was to use a T where the oil entered the side plate.

Don't quite understand the rest of your question as a B has an oil distribution gallery cast into the base of the valve chamber that routes oil to the mains and cam bearings. What inside pipes are you looking for?

 

[George Miller]

Looks like the block was cracked from the seat to the cylinder, then a cylinder sleeve put in. Yes you should be able to put seats in. they may need to be over size on the OD. Can not tell by looking at a picture.
If it was my block I would repair the crack with the tappered pins not weld.

 

[Milton]

First attempt:
Hey Milton: HereIyam! I think...

And a damn fine first attempt it is.

 

[hardtimes]

And a damn fine first attempt it is.

Milton,
You must be/have been a teacher!
I'm gonna try again with pics of the lower end,etc..
I'd like the guys to see the babbit job and tell me what they think of it, as there are 'grooves' cut in the babbit...but not 'across' it (diag). Looks pretty professsional done, but block has been setting in a shop for decades. Pics to follow.

 

[hardtimes]

Looks like the block was cracked from the seat to the cylinder, then a cylinder sleeve put in. Yes you should be able to put seats in. they may need to be over size on the OD. Can not tell by looking at a picture.
If it was my block I would repair the crack with the tappered pins not weld.

George,
NO sleeve..all cyls about /080 over, I think. Anyway, you are right on re: pins, as #2 exh hole IS pinned (3) is exact same area. Hmm, wonder why they didn't pin #3?
If there are no other problems(cracks/etc), do YOU think this block could be useable?

 

[hardtimes]

Thanks Bill,
I get it now. It's the A block that has to have extra piping..yes.
Along the 'oil galley' there are about 10 'extra' smaller threaded holes(in addition to 6 factory holes)..why, if you know?
Finally, although the rods have new babbit , the 'dippers' have been removed and the rod holes filled(mabe not drilled out the babbit?) why remove dippers?

 

[callcoy]

I had some over sized hard inserts made to salvage my block. The "B's" have a thinner deck than "A's", I had holes show up after pulling the old seat inserts, these had to be pinned and stitched. I do have 4 oversize inserts left, they measure 1.905 OD, you would bore out the the seat pocket to 1.900, heat the block, freeze the inserts and drive them home. Too much force and you end up with cracks, you do not want that! You really should pressure test the block before you spend any money on your project and after you install the seats. If OK then have the deck cut, these inserts are hard as h*ll, consider using a Neway cutter, grinding them with stones takes forever.
Steve - Santa Rosa

 

[Geo. H]

If the crank is drilled for pressure, you no longer need the dippers.

 

[just plain bill]

Thanks Bill,
I get it now. It's the A block that has to have extra piping..yes.
Along the 'oil galley' there are about 10 'extra' smaller threaded holes(in addition to 6 factory holes)..why, if you know?
Finally, although the rods have new babbit , the 'dippers' have been removed and the rod holes filled(mabe not drilled out the babbit?) why remove dippers?

Some people added more bolts, usually smaller, on pressurized engines because they felt the stock bolts would let the oil leak past the gasket because of the added pressure. Apparently the engine had been set up for full pressure lubrication. Has the crank been drilled?

 

[max sr]

Hardtimes,

The Model B Blocks that have a Diamond on the side will have Hard Ex Seats in them that are 1 5/8" OD and .220 deep.

The B blocks are very thin on the deck as well as on the OD, that being said we have seen that going to 1 11/16 is very thin at the intersect of the OD to the depth, so when counter boring for a seat you should re mag to see if a radial crack ( due to thin casting ) ocurred, and after seat installation, re mag as the seat pressure may cause a crack on the deck area as well as pressure testing after machining.

We will Ceramically seal all B blocks at each stage of repair ie: seats, sleeves, decking etc., simply because these blocks are so thin.

If you bore the seat to 1 3/4 youo will see water jacket and definately when the seat is installed 99% of the time it will frracture in a radial edge of the seat counter bore.

Thanks Max Sr.

 

[George Miller]

George,
NO sleeve..all cyls about /080 over, I think. Anyway, you are right on re: pins, as #2 exh hole IS pinned (3) is exact same area. Hmm, wonder why they didn't pin #3?
If there are no other problems(cracks/etc), do YOU think this block could be useable?

Yes if the cracks do not go all the way to the cylinders, if they do you will need sleeves. But it still would be a good engine. We fixed many back in the day, most were flat head V8's. Hope they pinned all the way to the end of the crack if not it will crack more. If it was mine I would pin it all the way and put in sleeves. Not to say you need to, I just seen to many bad jobs in the past.
My Sports coupe I had to pin and sleeve, valve seats on two cylinders. That was 15,000 miles ago, never any problem" knock on wood."

 

[Jim Brierley]

I've never seen a block brazed like that, they must have had a good reason as it is a lot of work. I wouldn't hesitate to put seats in it, or save it for an overhead? Your crank is probably drilled for pressure, therefore the dippers needed to be plugged. On a pressurized block, most restrict oil to the cam bearings in an attempt to keep pressure at idle. Use a larger pump than the A, a V8 can be converted. Most also enlarge the horizontal (drilled) passages to 1/4" on the ends and 5/16" on the center. The center feeds 2 rods, the ends only one. Use caution if enlarging the ports, as Max says, the blocks are thin and all B's are not the same. I've run quite well with stock size valves, so unless you are doing serious racing, stay small.

 

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

There has been some blocks come in over the years, that the seats were bored to deep by shops that didn't know about the B's, so they bored to deep, and we had to send them to Nevada, Iowa to get the holes Brazed shut, so Vern could put the seats in. No problem, just cost more money. Herm.

 

[hardtimes]

You 'engine guys' make it sound so easy! I'm mostly ignorant about the machining process and usually get injured, when playing with tools! I've asked Qs because probably lots of others, like me, learn from you guys..thanks!
Going to try for second round of pics of lower end/sides of block. Please review and let US know what you see and/or want to know(more about).
BTW...I think that pics were posted(by Herm)in the past showing diagonal cuts in bearings? Is what you see here correct/ok what?

BTW Just plain bill: the old B crank in one of these pics is what I got with block. 'Beavertail' ? Don't believe that it was for this blk..

 

[hardtimes]

callcoy,
I think that Jim B answered my main concern,i.e.- if I understand Jim properly..and there is NO other problem...this B can be used with an OHV setup. Hmm, that would make it worth saving,eh?
Well, I just went high tech and measured the bore(with ruler). Each hole measures 315/16". How much over is that , if you know?

 

[hardtimes]

I've never seen a block brazed like that, they must have had a good reason as it is a lot of work. I wouldn't hesitate to put seats in it, or save it for an overhead? Your crank is probably drilled for pressure, therefore the dippers needed to be plugged. On a pressurized block, most restrict oil to the cam bearings in an attempt to keep pressure at idle. Use a larger pump than the A, a V8 can be converted. Most also enlarge the horizontal (drilled) passages to 1/4" on the ends and 5/16" on the center. The center feeds 2 rods, the ends only one. Use caution if enlarging the ports, as Max says, the blocks are thin and all B's are not the same. I've run quite well with stock size valves, so unless you are doing serious racing, stay small.

Jim B,
Yeah, looks like this block was/will run as an OHV candidate..Hmm, Herm says that he has seen braze jobs in the seat areas. There is a threaded plug in the CAM GEAR END of the oil galley. With this in , how would the cam gear/crank gear get oil, if you know.
BTW..only crank that I got with block is a B, first type I think is called beavertail,eh? Not for use with this block.

 

[hardtimes]

Some people added more bolts, usually smaller, on pressurized engines because they felt the stock bolts would let the oil leak past the gasket because of the added pressure. Apparently the engine had been set up for full pressure lubrication. Has the crank been drilled?

Hey Bill,
No 'full pressure' crank, just a first issue B crank However, I did get a NOS B cam with