Aviation gas in Model A

Thanks for all the input. However I am going to rule out operator error, this guy is very experienced in Model A's as well as T's. I am sure it was just a coincidence. The head gasket was probably going to let go anyhow.
 
I have 2500 hours carried by 4360's. Love those huge round engines. My rememberer thinks the max MAP was 62.5. Sweet powerful engines. I have 2250 hours in WB-50s and 350 in KB-50s. I remember we cautioned the guys not to put 115/145 in thier scooters. Flying Convairs with R2800s and 100/115 I thought there was no problem.
 
Clem,
You are right, it was 62.5 in. water and alch, and 63 in. dry full rich.
I was a flight eng. on Shakey's for 9 year's. [corn cobb eng,s].
Max Powe :eek:.

9800 hundred hr's....Just a bad mem. :D
 
Last edited:
Louis,
Without you FE's mastering them big engines nothing would have happened. You guys were miracle workers. Like playing an organ on take off. I have the greatest respect for your profession.

One time at Eilson, we took of at -56 deg F. Our FE briefed us not to be frightened by the throttle positions. It seemed like 1/2 throttle when we reached max power.
 
Wow!..-56 deg's :eek:, Yes, It was easy to over torque on a cold day.
I liked it better at Wake, at 90 degress in the morn. after a long night at Drifter's Reef with a bad hangover, thinking about Mag drop charlie.

Sorry guy's I just had to thro. that in their. for ole guys like Capt. Clem and me, Please overlook ;).
 
Running av gas in a Model A is like running high octane gas in a modern car designed for regular gas, no damage to the car only your pocket book. With ethanol out there I wish I could find a source of av gas for my Model A since it doesn't contain ethanol. I doubt the gas was responsible for your friends engine problems.

Charlie Stephens
 
Our KB's went thru Wake, But I joined the 421st after those missions were finished. The tanks were haulin the Thuds to west pac(Itazuke). I have forgotten the stories about old Mag check.

I do remember coming to the WB at Goose one chilly morning and gas is running out of everywhere. The ground crew put Herman -Nelson heaters on all the Whitaker sliding gate vales in the flap wells and the gas running stopped. They signed the aircraft off... I was not happy but the WB did not blow up.

Again at Eilson we were told to crank a parked WB that was outside with a foot of snow on it. I was a junior guy so the AC and FE took me with them. The AC told the rest of the crew to stay in the warm hanger. This was one of those dumb things we sometimes were told to do. If you remember the Starter CB's were huge and buried some where in the wing root. About 10 seconds on each starter and pow! The ground crew had hours of work in the icey aircraft to change all 4 of the CB's.

Cold weather ops was surely different. In the good side, we had a mx guy who got a terrible rash in Hawaii. The FS could do nothing with it. The fellow was missing trips and not getting good reports. Finally he begged to go and the sent him with us to Alaska. The cold cleared him up in a week!! And he got promoted the next cycle. Those were the good old days when mx was part of the Squadron.
 
Bruce Adams said:
Sta Bil now makes a "Marine Formula" for the E-10 which is equivalant to Star Brite's "Star-Tron" which came out a couple of years before Sta-Bil's product.

MMO is totally different and is an upper cylinder lube. I use MMO faithfully in the Model A, and my seasonal engines get either the Star Brite of Sta Bil product in ADDITION to running them dry at end of season. This has helped in all cases save for deteriorated vinyl fuel connections.;)
Click to expand...

Hey, Bruce:

As I said in a private message to another Fordbarner:

"Sta-bil (the pink stuff) is useless with ethanol.

We really need to use the BLUE stuff.

Star Brite's "Star Tron" was the pioneer in this field... and was universally adopted by the marine industry... so that's what I use.

Sta-Bil now has a blue formula.... but I have no desire to switch brands.

I add MMO for other reasons, and my formula works for me."

JWB
 
Back in the '60's while I was doing my time for Uncle Sam we had multi fuel trucks. You could put any combustible liquid in the tank and it would run. The most recommend fuel was diesel. but kerosene, gasoline, motor oil, transmission fluid, and even JP4 (jet fuel) were recommended fuels. But in large letters it stated DO NOT USE AVIATION GRADE GASOLINE. There must be a reason for that.
 
Ca. Kid said:
Yesterday when I was at the county airport a club member called me and said he was out of gas in his Model A near the airport. I explained to him we didn't have auto gas, only avgas 100LL, which is 100 octane with no alcohol and a small percentage of lead. I have burned 100LL in everything from an antique Curtis 0X-5 to chainsaws with no problem. He agreed that it should be ok as he only had 5 miles to get home. We put in 2 gallons and off he went.
Later that evening he called and told me what happened. After about 3 miles the engine stared heating up and missing, by the time he got home it was running on 2 cylinders with a blown head gasket. He was pulling the head last night so I hope that was the only damage.
My question is do any of you petro chemical engineers have any ideas as to why 100LL would cause this or was it just a coincidence?
Click to expand...

Have you ever seen "The beverly Hillbillies"? They always used alchole!
John
 
How about it ran out of gas, sucked some crap off the bottom of the tank, plugged
a jet in the carb and leaned it out?????
That could explain running hot and blowing a head gasket.
Running a higher octane fuel will richen it up not lean it out.

My 2 cents....

Dodge
 
Maybe the driver for some reason thought he should retard the spark with av gas (oops!). Combine the slow burning high octane fuel with late ignition timing and the exhaust valves will be roasted in no time! Does the exhaust manifold show signs of recently being a bright red color?
 
Neighbors said don't buy Bad Buds gas, it's got ethanol crap in it! That's all I ever run as they had cute girls workin' there. My '30 with a Weber always ran good, never water when draining the cast iron sediment bowl. I always used 7 to 8 gallons a week. Only once it was parked for 4 months when I was in the hospital, started & ran like a champ! Maybe "crap gas" sometimes gets blamed for other malfunctions?????? Most any gas can get crappy with age. Bill W.
 
Ca. Kid said:
Thanks for all the input. However I am going to rule out operator error, this guy is very experienced in Model A's as well as T's. I am sure it was just a coincidence. The head gasket was probably going to let go anyhow.
Click to expand...
Probably like Dodge said, when it ran out of gas it leaned out and the marginal head gasket got a hot spot and began to fail. With the high octane gas in and running, the head gasket began to burn and allow the engine to overheat. This began a progressive problem that blew the head gasket. Not the problem created directly by the AV fuel but by the operator's failure to fill the tank but would have had a failure soon anyway.
 
The small airports here won't sell av gas anymore unless it is being pumped into a plane.Somebody finally caught on,and jumped on them for selling untaxed fuel for vehicles.There is no road tax on aircraft fuel.There were a couple of places selling booze free gas in the lakes region,but they also got caught pumping the gas in cars.I'm not even sure if they are still selling it at all this year.
 
Aviation gas is an oxygenated fuel and can be used, but the tuneup will have to be adjusted acordingly. (fuel mixture fatened up a little) the av fuel is oxygenated to cope with high altitude.
My 2002 motorhome user manual states in bold letters not to use high octane fuel as it will ruin the motor. i guess high octane fuel in a low compression motor is to hard to ignight.
 
Interesting! Do you know what is used to oxygenate avgas? Ethanol? MTBE? Or something else? And how would this affect vapor pressure of the fuel? Avgas has to be formulated to resist vaporizing at high altitudes so it won't "vapor lock". Thus the need for the pilot to know how and when to apply "carb heat". Some years ago a friend from Minnesota landed in Albuquerque, NM in January for fuel and automatically applied full carb heat for take-off as he did in MN. He could only climb to barely above rooftop level until he remembered to shut off the carb heat! Ever notice how hard an aircraft piston engine is to start on a cold day at or near sea level? The fuel doesn't want to vaporize and burn!
On the motorhome I imagiine one danger is washing down the cylinder walls from that unburned "high test" gas which then dilutes the oil.
 
In my last post I forgot to mention that my friend also had set the mixture full rich, forgetting he was taking off from a 5,000 ft.+ airport. Leaning also brought the power back.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top