Anyone have experience with this electronic ignition distributor on 1956 Thunderbird?

Amazing they don't mention that little factoid isn't it?

Wonder how many buy this system and the car won't run correctly?
 
I would think that distributor would work with any carb. Just use manifold vacuum. Am I wrong?
 
Ole Don said:
I would think that distributor would work with any carb. Just use manifold vacuum. Am I wrong?
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A quote from the link below...

"what you're suggesting will do the opposite what you want. When you open the throttle manifold vacuum will drop off, decreasing advance.
The ported vacuum will increase as you open the throttle and continue to increase as the flow thru the carb increases. giving you full advance."

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=192905

The (single chambered) vacuum advance canister on a distributor connects to a designated fitting on the carburetor.

An oem '56 dual canister distributor has two vacuum lines, one connects to the carb, the other to manifold vacuum. The only one I'm aware of that connects to the intake manifold.

.
 
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At that low price it's almost a guarantee that it's Chinese manufactured garbage for the American market.


Sal
 
Ole Don said:
I would think that distributor would work with any carb. Just use manifold vacuum. Am I wrong?
Click to expand...

Well yes, but the problem is you will have full vacuum advance @ idle and part throttle (pinging). You would have to modify the system.

GM uses (did) this system in a lot of applications,
 
KULTULZ said:
Well yes, but the problem is you will have full vacuum advance @ idle and part throttle (pinging). You would have to modify the system.
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Not really, it is a myth that there is any appreciable difference between "ported" and manifold vacuum in terms of the distributor advance at anything other than idle, and at idle there is no load so ping or knock is not a factor. In all other respects the distributor advance (or retard) is exactly the same.

Maximum vacuum advance at idle does have certain advantages, lower engine temperatures. Unfortunately a direct manifold connection also increases NOX emissions. Another myth is that "ported" vacuum was a smog era invention, it was touted at least as far back as 1930s publications as a way to ensure a steady smooth idle - exactly what the modern tuner will find today.
 
Crankster said:
Not really, it is a myth that there is any appreciable difference between "ported" and manifold vacuum in terms of the distributor advance at anything other than idle, and at idle there is no load so ping or knock is not a factor. In all other respects the distributor advance (or retard) is exactly the same.
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I'm trying to understand, not sound argumentative...

If there isn't that much difference why did Ford and Holley, Autolite (etc.) go to so much design and engineering expense over several years changing and upgrading carbs and distributor advance... if straight manifold vacuum would have worked in the first place?
Is it for reduced emissions and improved fuel economy? or ?
 
dmsfrr said:
I'm trying to understand, not sound argumentative...

If there isn't that much difference why did Ford and Holley, Autolite (etc.) go to so much design and engineering expense over several years changing and upgrading carbs and distributor advance... if straight manifold vacuum would have worked in the first place?
Is it for reduced emissions and improved fuel economy? or ?
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No that's fine, keep in mind the Loadomatic (Ford) distributor is a separate deal altogether and just confuses things even further. It has no mechanical advance mechanism, it is exclusively operated by vacuum(s) from two different sources from a special proprietary carburetor. This is why there is a performance problem when someone installs a different carburetor on an engine that included the loadomatic. Another issue I believe Ford went to a 1/4" hex drive for the distributor shaft after '56. As far as standard type dual unit distributor using mechanical weights and vacuum advance I'm not sure exactly why different manufacturers used different methods.

"Ported" manifold was utilized/invented because it allows for a steady idle, and long before any pollution controls were ever dreamed of. There is probably more misconception about distributors and ignition timing than anything I can think of, and especially vacuum advance. It's often found disconnected because the tuner doesn't understand it, or "curving". Part of the problem too is so many components and methods (and marketing) geared towards drag racing are mistakenly employed by people who only and ever drive on the street. Huge carburetors and intake plenums, rumpety-rumpety cams and racing distributors are made for high RPM and high speed only, and won't idle well or handle nicely tooling around town.

A mechanics vacuum gauge plumbed into the cabin will illustrate how engine vacuum fluctuates wildly and quickly under different engine load conditions. That's the key to understanding vacuum advance (or retard); the mechanical weights or centrifugal distributor advance is RPM only, vacuum advance is load dependent, they are completely independent of each other. If you were to connect two vacuum gauges, one to manifold, and one to "ported" they would read exactly the same cruising down the highway. Thus the advance at the distributor would be the same.

At idle 30° or more BTDC tends to cause alarm, but there is no load on the engine. And as soon as there is, the vacuum goes away. Most engine tuners recommend a stock engine be connected to "ported" while a modified street engine will prefer being connected to a straight manifold source, mainly for the reasons mentioned.
 
At idle 30° or more BTDC tends to cause alarm, but there is no load on the engine. And as soon as there is, the vacuum goes away. Most engine tuners recommend a stock engine be connected to "ported" while a modified street engine will prefer being connected to a straight manifold source, mainly for the reasons mentioned.
This is why it worked so well for me, my 312 had higher compression, big valves, an Isky cam and other goodies. At idle, it had a bunch of advance, and while opening the throttle, both vacuum and advance would drop significantly. It needed 89 octane all the time, and 91 or 93 if I raced. It would eat orange 350's for breakfast. It was a fun car.
 
While you kids have your meltdown, I have a Pertronix II in my 57 distributor and it works very nicely. One trip to the west coast (from the east coast) and a lot of other shorter trips and it has worked very well.
 
Ole Don said:
At idle 30° or more BTDC tends to cause alarm, but there is no load on the engine. And as soon as there is, the vacuum goes away. Most engine tuners recommend a stock engine be connected to "ported" while a modified street engine will prefer being connected to a straight manifold source, mainly for the reasons mentioned.
This is why it worked so well for me, my 312 had higher compression, big valves, an Isky cam and other goodies. At idle, it had a bunch of advance, and while opening the throttle, both vacuum and advance would drop significantly. It needed 89 octane all the time, and 91 or 93 if I raced. It would eat orange 350's for breakfast. It was a fun car.
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Let me add one very important clue as to why my motors ran so well. I mailed two 57 type distributors to Bubba's Hot Rod Shop in Indy for a custom curve. Both of my good engines had one. One motor had cast flat top pistons, and rods with polished beams. This one was shifted at 5800 to 6000. The other motor had forged pop up pistons, on aftermarket rods, an Isky 505T cam, that one was shifted at 7,000 to 7200 RPMs. Both had a Pertronix. I was told after the fact that when I ran the one mile at Bonneville, everything stopped so they could listen to me. I was busy trying to keep the rear behind the front. It got loose about 120.
 
paul2748 said:
While you kids have your meltdown, I have a Pertronix II in my 57 distributor and it works very nicely. One trip to the west coast (from the east coast) and a lot of other shorter trips and it has worked very well.
Click to expand...

I must be missing something here on the "meltdown"...looks like Crankster has been banned. I looked back through his posts on other threads and I guess this thread did him in? :confused:
 
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