steve-cook
Member
Has anyone ever participated in a concours d'elegance show and what were your thoughts on the show/experience?
Anyone ever participated in Concours d'elegance show?
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PeterC
Well-known member
yes - my 39 Coupe has been at the Fairfield Concours Show in Fairfield, Ct - a very well managed and attended event. It was a "humble" car next to the Duesenbergs and Cadillac V16's etc - but everyone seemed to appreciate it and I had great fun - met many nice people and answered a lot of questions. My 1940 Harley Knucklehead one 1st place at one of the Fairfield events as well - same experience with the bike as well.
CBoz
Member
I've taken the Zephyr to Meadowbrook in 2009, the Indy 100th anniversary celebration this past summer, and will be going to Hilton Head in November.
I've enjoyed the concourses and I highly recommend them, but they are different than typical AACA or shows devoted to a specific marque. For one, because there are so many different makes, condition and "presence" are going to count for more than absolute correctness. Also, since your car will likely be the only one of its model, you are much more likely to get questions. I've been to Mustang Club of America shows where there were 20 cars similar to mine lined up -- when that happens, the focus switches to what's wrong with your car versus what makes it unique -- very competitive, and not as much fun IMHO.
The best concourses will make sure you aren't in the same class with Duesenbergs or SS Mercedes. That said, I've never felt like these owners were looking down on my car. Some, like Hilton Head, will check to make sure everything is working -- horn, radio, lights, etc.
Also, I must confess I like some of the "fancy schmancy" stuff surrounding the concourses. Hey, I work on my car and I get as greasy as the next guy, but the wife appreciates it when I dress up in a seersucker suit and take her out.
I've enjoyed the concourses and I highly recommend them, but they are different than typical AACA or shows devoted to a specific marque. For one, because there are so many different makes, condition and "presence" are going to count for more than absolute correctness. Also, since your car will likely be the only one of its model, you are much more likely to get questions. I've been to Mustang Club of America shows where there were 20 cars similar to mine lined up -- when that happens, the focus switches to what's wrong with your car versus what makes it unique -- very competitive, and not as much fun IMHO.
The best concourses will make sure you aren't in the same class with Duesenbergs or SS Mercedes. That said, I've never felt like these owners were looking down on my car. Some, like Hilton Head, will check to make sure everything is working -- horn, radio, lights, etc.
Also, I must confess I like some of the "fancy schmancy" stuff surrounding the concourses. Hey, I work on my car and I get as greasy as the next guy, but the wife appreciates it when I dress up in a seersucker suit and take her out.
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Ken/Alabama
Well-known member
Hey CBoz, Where can I find the rubber weather strip that goes in the wind wing frames that the glass closes against. I have gotten suggestion from others but I have been told that the correct one is available but I have had zero luck finding a supplier.
3738
Senior Member
I restored a 1968 AMX and competed in 40 ISCA and Concours de Elegance shows, winning Best of Show, Outstanding Restored or 1st Place in every show.
In the ISCA shows, since the AMX is a 2 seater, I was in the same class as Panteras, Corvettes and early T-Birds.
In the Concours, I was usually in a class with Panteras, Corvettes, early T-Birds or with a group of various Muscle Cars.
Depending on the size of the Concours, for example, you might end up in a class of cars like American Manufacture 1936-1940, or possibly an all Ford class Pre-War.
Due to the price of awards, the smaller the Concours, the more likely you will end up in a class of mixed bag auto makes, in order to have enough cars in each category.
As has been mentioned already, due to all the different makes of vehicles in most classes, absolute correctness does not always carry as much weight as cleanliness and attention to detail.
Detail at some Concours can mean;
- That one of the flat sides of the head of body bolts are aligned parallel to the frame rails, and all screw heads are aligned with each other, parallel to the frame rails (Phillips head screws have the vertical line in the "+" aligned with the frame rails)
- All the valve stems on every tire are aligned and presented at the 6 O-clock position (jack the vehicle up and rotate each tire to accomplish this), and when the tires are mounted, the brand name or tire size is installed to be presented at the 12 O-clock position, opposite from the valve stem
PS - After retiring my show car AMX, I sold it to buy my house, then volunteered as a SCCA Concours de Elegance judge for ~ 15 years.
In the ISCA shows, since the AMX is a 2 seater, I was in the same class as Panteras, Corvettes and early T-Birds.
In the Concours, I was usually in a class with Panteras, Corvettes, early T-Birds or with a group of various Muscle Cars.
Depending on the size of the Concours, for example, you might end up in a class of cars like American Manufacture 1936-1940, or possibly an all Ford class Pre-War.
Due to the price of awards, the smaller the Concours, the more likely you will end up in a class of mixed bag auto makes, in order to have enough cars in each category.
As has been mentioned already, due to all the different makes of vehicles in most classes, absolute correctness does not always carry as much weight as cleanliness and attention to detail.
Detail at some Concours can mean;
- That one of the flat sides of the head of body bolts are aligned parallel to the frame rails, and all screw heads are aligned with each other, parallel to the frame rails (Phillips head screws have the vertical line in the "+" aligned with the frame rails)
- All the valve stems on every tire are aligned and presented at the 6 O-clock position (jack the vehicle up and rotate each tire to accomplish this), and when the tires are mounted, the brand name or tire size is installed to be presented at the 12 O-clock position, opposite from the valve stem
PS - After retiring my show car AMX, I sold it to buy my house, then volunteered as a SCCA Concours de Elegance judge for ~ 15 years.
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CBoz
Member
Hey Ken - I had good rubber with the set I bought, so I'm not sure where to get reproductions. I would try Naragansett Reproductions first, http://www.narragansettreproductions.com/partspdfs/parts-lincoln.pdf and after that, maybe Boos-Herrell http://boos-herrel.com/
Hoop
Well-known member
It is important early in this thread to state that all concours are not the same.
The show format and name have become very popular, and there is a wide variance in the way the shows are run and judged.
"3738" has participated in concours that judge by where the valve stems are positioned. "CBoz" will probably tell you that Meadowbrook does not pay attention to that.
Both are right.
Some shows are assembled to present certain classes with the best possible examples in those classes ... with very few multiples of the same model and as much variety within the class as possible. The idea being to create a show to appeal to the patrons who come in to see the cars. This makes judging more difficult since unrestored examples of one model of a make are in the same class as restored, different models of that make.
An example in one concours was Hirohota's Merc beside the James Dean, Rebel Without A Cause, unrestored movie Merc. ( ... with George Barris chatting with the patrons.)
Other concours use intense judging with strong head-to-head competition.
Some concours are by invitation and not "all-comers" meets. Others are pretty open.
Depending on the show, cars may be towed and/or pushed onto the show field, sometimes without brakes or steering ... very often the case when the "Honorary Chairman" for the year has a racing history or if the car is especially unique and necessary to present a class.
So, experiences, impressions and opinions are going to vary.
The show format and name have become very popular, and there is a wide variance in the way the shows are run and judged.
"3738" has participated in concours that judge by where the valve stems are positioned. "CBoz" will probably tell you that Meadowbrook does not pay attention to that.
Both are right.
Some shows are assembled to present certain classes with the best possible examples in those classes ... with very few multiples of the same model and as much variety within the class as possible. The idea being to create a show to appeal to the patrons who come in to see the cars. This makes judging more difficult since unrestored examples of one model of a make are in the same class as restored, different models of that make.
An example in one concours was Hirohota's Merc beside the James Dean, Rebel Without A Cause, unrestored movie Merc. ( ... with George Barris chatting with the patrons.)
Other concours use intense judging with strong head-to-head competition.
Some concours are by invitation and not "all-comers" meets. Others are pretty open.
Depending on the show, cars may be towed and/or pushed onto the show field, sometimes without brakes or steering ... very often the case when the "Honorary Chairman" for the year has a racing history or if the car is especially unique and necessary to present a class.
So, experiences, impressions and opinions are going to vary.
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Henryat1140
Senior Member
We've been in two Concours this year with our 36 Phaeton, Boca Raton and Greenwich. In both shows we didn't feel 'looked down upon'. The organizers were genuinely glad we were there and appreciative for the time and effort it takes to participate.
My feeling about these events is it gives you a chance to see some magnificent cars that you would never see in a local show. It also is a chance to talk and make friends with other exhibitors.
You do have to adjust your trophy expectations, as you will be judged against cars whose owners have very deep pockets. At these levels most of the work is done by professional restoration shops where perfection is just a starting point. As another poster mentioned because of the variety of cars displayed the classes can be large; at Boca Raton our class was 'American Classic' and there were cars from 1917 to 1939 all makes, about 30 in the class, and so many beautiful ones, so a trophy was out of the question.
If you approach it with the idea you are going to have a good time regardless of the financial difference between you and a lot of the owners you'll not be disappointed. I don't mean that early V8'ers are poverty cases, but the concours owners think in terms of hundreds of thousands if not millions spent on a car - out of reach for most hobbyists like us.
The result is we get to enjoy seeing these exotic and stunning cars.
There is a cost factor too, unless the event is close to you it can be expensive; fuel and motel costs can mount up. Lots of concours cars are shipped to the event in semi trailers.
This is not said to discourage anyone but to contribute a few items for consideration. The first step is to submit an entry form and pictures for acceptance into the show. We've been turned down on a couple where the level of cars just was so high that our Early V8's were not in contention, like the recent "Elegance" show put on at the Hotel Hershey.
The Jensen Ford that was exhibited at Auburn is an exception to the rule, even though it's a Ford it won a trophy at Meadowbrook. But the restoration was beautiful and it had a custom built body.
I'd encourage you to give it a try - the bottom line is how much fun you have with the car and these shows are fun
My feeling about these events is it gives you a chance to see some magnificent cars that you would never see in a local show. It also is a chance to talk and make friends with other exhibitors.
You do have to adjust your trophy expectations, as you will be judged against cars whose owners have very deep pockets. At these levels most of the work is done by professional restoration shops where perfection is just a starting point. As another poster mentioned because of the variety of cars displayed the classes can be large; at Boca Raton our class was 'American Classic' and there were cars from 1917 to 1939 all makes, about 30 in the class, and so many beautiful ones, so a trophy was out of the question.
If you approach it with the idea you are going to have a good time regardless of the financial difference between you and a lot of the owners you'll not be disappointed. I don't mean that early V8'ers are poverty cases, but the concours owners think in terms of hundreds of thousands if not millions spent on a car - out of reach for most hobbyists like us.
The result is we get to enjoy seeing these exotic and stunning cars.
There is a cost factor too, unless the event is close to you it can be expensive; fuel and motel costs can mount up. Lots of concours cars are shipped to the event in semi trailers.
This is not said to discourage anyone but to contribute a few items for consideration. The first step is to submit an entry form and pictures for acceptance into the show. We've been turned down on a couple where the level of cars just was so high that our Early V8's were not in contention, like the recent "Elegance" show put on at the Hotel Hershey.
The Jensen Ford that was exhibited at Auburn is an exception to the rule, even though it's a Ford it won a trophy at Meadowbrook. But the restoration was beautiful and it had a custom built body.
I'd encourage you to give it a try - the bottom line is how much fun you have with the car and these shows are fun
CBoz
Member
And as if to make your point, at the Indy 500 100th Anniversary Concours, I was put in a class of 1937 cars, including the Mercedes shown here (which sold for $9.8 *million* last month), a Delahaye, a couple of Cords, and a Packard V12 to my right.
My poor old Zephyr was the only regular production car in my class (you can see it hiding behind the guy in the yellow shirt)! Every other concours I've ever been in separates production cars from CCCA cars, so this was an anomaly. I tell you though, we Ford folks should be proud how well Ford/Zephyr styling holds up in these circles.
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Henryat1140
Senior Member
We've done a lot of shows in the past two years, and had a good time at all of them.
I've come to realize the most fun for me is to sit by the car and interact with the spectators and other car owners. To hear the compliments and family stories and discuss the car with others who are restoring one like it - that is enjoyable to me.
If a trophy comes our way, that's so much to the good, but if there's no trophy, I still had a good time.
Some of you know my son "Very Tangled', and spending the time with him working on the car and attending meets like the EFV8 Nationals is priceless.
It's not about the cars as much as it's about the people, and it's always been that way IMO.
I've come to realize the most fun for me is to sit by the car and interact with the spectators and other car owners. To hear the compliments and family stories and discuss the car with others who are restoring one like it - that is enjoyable to me.
If a trophy comes our way, that's so much to the good, but if there's no trophy, I still had a good time.
Some of you know my son "Very Tangled', and spending the time with him working on the car and attending meets like the EFV8 Nationals is priceless.
It's not about the cars as much as it's about the people, and it's always been that way IMO.
Hoop
Well-known member
"We've been turned down on a couple where the level of cars just was so high that our Early V8's were not in contention, like the recent "Elegance" show put on at the Hotel Hershey."
If Hershey turned you down, find an event more suited to your car that will welcome you.
Here's reality.
The major events are not just about cars. They are about costs. They are extremely expensive to put on ... and to attend as a spectator.
Pebble Beach is $175 advance general admission, $200 at the gate. Amelia Island is dirt cheap with the same quality cars at $50 advanced/$60 gate.
If a spectator pays that kind of money even at 50 bucks, they want to see some great cars. Frankly, not your '36 Phaeton OR my '35 coupe.
If there is a limited amount of space to display cars like at these major events (Hershey is not really a "major" but only invites 65(?) cars), and choices have to be made, here is a link to the 2011 Amelia Island Concours with professional photos by Neil Rashba. Starting at photo #144, check out the class ... HOT ROD MAGAZINE Cover Cars, and each car with an enlarged placard of the magazine cover.
What do you think spectators would rather pay money to see?
Nothing wrong with your car. It's the wrong venue for us.
http://neilrashbaphotography.smugmug.com/2011AmeliaIslandConcoursdElega/Show-Field/16393496_QHPJcv#1232962816_rFyL4
If Hershey turned you down, find an event more suited to your car that will welcome you.
Here's reality.
The major events are not just about cars. They are about costs. They are extremely expensive to put on ... and to attend as a spectator.
Pebble Beach is $175 advance general admission, $200 at the gate. Amelia Island is dirt cheap with the same quality cars at $50 advanced/$60 gate.
If a spectator pays that kind of money even at 50 bucks, they want to see some great cars. Frankly, not your '36 Phaeton OR my '35 coupe.
If there is a limited amount of space to display cars like at these major events (Hershey is not really a "major" but only invites 65(?) cars), and choices have to be made, here is a link to the 2011 Amelia Island Concours with professional photos by Neil Rashba. Starting at photo #144, check out the class ... HOT ROD MAGAZINE Cover Cars, and each car with an enlarged placard of the magazine cover.
What do you think spectators would rather pay money to see?
Nothing wrong with your car. It's the wrong venue for us.
http://neilrashbaphotography.smugmug.com/2011AmeliaIslandConcoursdElega/Show-Field/16393496_QHPJcv#1232962816_rFyL4
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Henryat1140
Senior Member
Hoop,
I wasn't whining or complaining (about not being selected). I agree with your post - there are appropriate venues and there are ones that are too upscale.
Henry
I wasn't whining or complaining (about not being selected). I agree with your post - there are appropriate venues and there are ones that are too upscale.
Henry
Hoop
Well-known member
Henry,
I really apologize if it sounded like I was accusing you of complaining. I did not see your posts that way at all. My intention was to use your turn down to explain to Steve, and any other guys thinking about a concours experience, that they should not be disappointed if they aren't invited to one (or more) of the events.
And ... that if there is not a spot for them, it does not mean they do not have an excellent, beautiful car.
While there are many wealthy folks with cars whose restoration costs are absolutely eye-watering, many "mom and pop" entries are invited. I have a buddy who has shown his cars at Pebble Beach and Amelia Island. He trailers the cars himself. He is a retired school teacher who lives in a modest working class neighborhood.
His chances of showing his cars at the next of either event? Probably zero ... unless they have a class for custom-bodied European early Fords. Which they have had and into which his cars "fit."
Other events would gladly welcome either car anytime.
Again, I also agree with your comments, but wanted to give some insight into why some cars are selected and other, seemingly qualified, cars are not. And, that at some events turn downs are not to be considered a complete rejection in any way of one's car.
Here are Bob's cars. The '35 may be recognized from the cover of the 2010 May/Jun issue of V8 Times. The lower picture of his '32 enthusiastically shown at a local car show:
I really apologize if it sounded like I was accusing you of complaining. I did not see your posts that way at all. My intention was to use your turn down to explain to Steve, and any other guys thinking about a concours experience, that they should not be disappointed if they aren't invited to one (or more) of the events.
And ... that if there is not a spot for them, it does not mean they do not have an excellent, beautiful car.
While there are many wealthy folks with cars whose restoration costs are absolutely eye-watering, many "mom and pop" entries are invited. I have a buddy who has shown his cars at Pebble Beach and Amelia Island. He trailers the cars himself. He is a retired school teacher who lives in a modest working class neighborhood.
His chances of showing his cars at the next of either event? Probably zero ... unless they have a class for custom-bodied European early Fords. Which they have had and into which his cars "fit."
Other events would gladly welcome either car anytime.
Again, I also agree with your comments, but wanted to give some insight into why some cars are selected and other, seemingly qualified, cars are not. And, that at some events turn downs are not to be considered a complete rejection in any way of one's car.
Here are Bob's cars. The '35 may be recognized from the cover of the 2010 May/Jun issue of V8 Times. The lower picture of his '32 enthusiastically shown at a local car show:
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Hoop
Well-known member
Vic, come to think of it, the last time I saw you we didn't have much time to talk.
I think I was trying get a Tucker running just outside the front gate ... the wife inside cranking while the owner and I were in back trying to get fuel flowing.
A true "Mom and Pop" team.
See you there.
Hoop
I think I was trying get a Tucker running just outside the front gate ... the wife inside cranking while the owner and I were in back trying to get fuel flowing.
A true "Mom and Pop" team.
See you there.
Hoop
Hotrodladycrusr
Senior Member
I was invited to show my car at the Eyes on Design Concours event at the Edsel Ford Estate a couple of years ago. I had a blast! A couple of the main differences that I noticed from a regular car "show" was the fact that the exhibtor did not have to pay to show their car AND we received both breakfast and lunch supplied for us.
I did had to give up one of my most favorite events the Hot Rod Reunion in Bowling Green in able to do the Eyes on Design event since they are always on the same weekend but the upside was since I stayed in town I got to spend that Fathers Day with my pops.
Oh yeah, another plus....I got to wear a dress and fancy hat and not feel out of place.
I did had to give up one of my most favorite events the Hot Rod Reunion in Bowling Green in able to do the Eyes on Design event since they are always on the same weekend but the upside was since I stayed in town I got to spend that Fathers Day with my pops.
Oh yeah, another plus....I got to wear a dress and fancy hat and not feel out of place.
Django
Well-known member
We've been invited to Eyes On Design as well. It's a great show, and to be on the Edsel Ford estate is pretty neat. Of the 3 times we've been, we actually won our class once, so that was pretty exciting. The 2nd year, the judges were convinced that the '33 Ford truck we brought was in one of the little pages magazines in the '60s when in fact we had just finished it and built it from nothing. That was pretty awesome, and way better than winning the class (which we did not that year). Everyone is always very nice, and while it's not the typical show that I attend, it is a good time.
I WILL say that it always depresses me that being on the Ford estate, there are not more Fords in attendence. When I went last year, I found out at Dearborn, there was a Ford show on the same weekend and I didn't find out until I got there. Doh!
I WILL say that it always depresses me that being on the Ford estate, there are not more Fords in attendence. When I went last year, I found out at Dearborn, there was a Ford show on the same weekend and I didn't find out until I got there. Doh!
Hotrodladycrusr
Senior Member
Sorry I never mentioned it to you before.
Motor Muster at Greenfield Village always seems to be Fathers Day weekend. It's also the same weekend as the Oldsmobile Homecoming in Lansing....just in case you ever wanted to do that event. 
frenchy dehoux
Well-known member
I know there is a show every year in Palm Springs Calif in February and this one is on the grass at a golf course. Anyone knows if this is a special invitation only or is it a regular show.
Frenchy
Frenchy