Anti size

[Werner]

(...) use anti-seize when you install the new studs.

I'd be interested in your overseas opinions.


Here in Germany, copper paste is predominantly recommended.
I by myself believe that copper paste is not suitable for direct iron-on-iron contact. Because copper ist conductive, and as an electrically conductive dielectric, the difference in valence between the elements could lead to slight electrochemical currents and subsequent erosion. (Think: sacrificial anode as a basic principle.)

Therefore, I think that using non-metallic ceramic anti-size paste is a better option for these (cylinderhead, manyfold) studs.


What do you mean?

 

[noboD]

There is also a food grade Never Seize. It is teflon based. Might be good for what you describe?

 

[ronn]

is it really necessary in our lifetimes?

 

[JayJay]

I use copper anti-seize (golden/orange) for high temperature applications (cylinder head and manifold studs, muffler clamp bolts, distributor base) and the aluminum/copper/graphite (gray) anti-seize for other bolts/nuts I want to be able to get back out.

I had not thought of the potential electrolytic implications that Werner mentioned. However, as Ronn points out, is this really an issue? Copper anti-seize had been used in steel and iron applications for years with no reported problems that I'm aware of.

 

[Synchro909]

I use a Molybdenum, based anti seize. My nuts have never been stuck!

 

[Klattu1929]

I use never seize pure nickle, we used it on jet engines. works great.

 

[JayJay]

I use a Molybdenum, based anti seize. My nuts have never been stuck!

I thought the gray stuff I use (Permatex 80078) was moly based, but when I looked it up the product sheet shows aluminum/copper/graphite based. Now that I think about it, it doesn't stink like the moly-based Honda Moly paste (now apparently discontinued) I have does. If you want moly-based anti-sieze, search for that specifically. It's out there, just not as common as it used to be.

 

[alexiskai]

I by myself believe that copper paste is not suitable for direct iron-on-iron contact. Because copper ist conductive, and as an electrically conductive dielectric, the difference in valence between the elements could lead to slight electrochemical currents and subsequent erosion.

According to this article, it’s only really a problem with stainless steel, not cast iron or mild steel, and even then you wouldn’t see an effect unless the substrate washed out and left just the copper behind. Remember that “copper anti-seize” has copper in it but it isn’t literally made of copper.

https://www.rocol.com/knowledge-centre/rocol_expert/anti-seize-and-corrosion-protection

 

[nkaminar]

On a boat you never put stainless steel fasteners into aluminum, like the mast, without some anti-seize. Otherwise, the galvanic action, in the salt air, will mean that the fastener will never come out and the aluminum will turn to crumbly aluminum oxide. If I remember correctly it was some sort of moly based.

 

[noboD]

I worked in the food industry where all hardware was SS. Everything got Never Seize. One time I went to the tool crib for some hardware. On the way back to the job I was playing with a nut and screw. It seized up hard enough I had to use a wrench to get them apart. I HATE SS hardware. Werner has a point to his theory. Everything gets Never Seize including battery terminals. I have never had corrosion on a battery when using Never Seize.

 

[Keith True]

In 1988 I put a complete undercarriage under an Allis Chalmers HD 11 bulldozer.Tracks,pads,front idlers,sprockets,rollers,and had to rebush the pivots on the track frames.Not one single bolt was bound up.Never broke one of them.It had a real heavy copper anti-seize on every thread.Owner had bought it new in 1958,and worked it constantly until 1967,then took it home to clear farm fields until about 1972.The owner had put several new undercarriages under it over it's working life,but he couldn't remember just how many.His mechanic was real big on never-sieze,to the point of the operators swearing at him after he worked on the equipment.

 

[rotorwrench]

While I worked on helicopters for many years, the nickel based anti seize was the favored type due to the extreme temperatures of the turbine engine components. Rather than purchase several different types. I just use the nickel base stuff for everything. No anti-seize product will promote corrosion. It's used to prevent that from happening. I use the nickel based stuff on the back of engine crankshaft bearing shells to prevent metal transfer or fretting corrosion between the block and the shell. A little bit goes a long way. The stuff is good for a lot of purposes. The only use that may be problematic is on certain tapered shaft applications. In aviation, it's only used when specified for certain applications.

 

[noboD]

I agree, it should not be used on a taper. Plan on getting on your glasses, zipper, and anything else you touch all day.

 

[Ernstudet22]

As rotorwrench said, there is a nickel based high heat. It lasts. We used it at the steel mill on roll assemblies that saw very high heat and loads of water too.

 

[Phil Brown]

So true