Another Dumb Question......

reverendjim

Member
I finally got my tail/brake light working. It was a ground problem. Now I am having trouble with the carb. It is over loading, sputtering, and backfiring through the carb. I've had it apart and cleaned it but it is still getting too much gas. It will run out while the engine is running. I have read in some other threads about checking the float valve but how do I do that? also could this flooding be the cause of the sputtering and backfire? I have checked the time, points, and replaced the condenser thinking that the backfire might be ignition related but it did not change. Also adjusting the carb. doesn't seem to affect it either.

Thanks in Advance,
James
 
You may have just gotten a bit of random crud in one of your passeges in the carb. You can pull it off, dissasemble it and blow it out and have it back installed in less than a half hour if you stay with it. Worth a shot.
The back firing sort of sounds as if your rubbing block on the points may be worn and have closed up a bit. Check the gap of the points and readjust in necessary.
 
i just had asimilar problem, took my carb apart and blew it all out.. pulled out all the needles and put back together and it runs good, but still seems like it wont rev up with out sputtering out, but dosent die..
 
i just had asimilar problem, took my carb apart and blew it all out.. pulled out all the needles and put back together and it runs good, but still seems like it wont rev up with out sputtering out, but dosent die..

That sounds like this one. I blew it out but still sputters when you press the accelerater but it idles good.

James
 
I think my carburetor leak is fixed. It seems it was leaking from where the screen screws in. It seems to still be overloading though. Howeverv it is still sputtering and backfiring through the carb when I accelerate. Could it be something shorting out in the distributor? It has modern points and condenser.

James
 
It is possible your GAV needle valve may not seat when closed off putting excess fuel to the cap jet which the engine can not burn ;the excess fuel will exit the engine into the hot muffler and back fire.

Ron
 
Hi James,

All above advice is no doubt outstanding.

Incidentally to make you feel much better, here are several "dumber" questions, i.e.:

1. Carburetor ..... what kind? A cast iron Zenith, a pot metal Tillotstons, a pot metal Sears Marvel?

2. Did your engine ever run smoothly? What was done between smooth running & now?

3. Was engine possibly not running for nearly a year or so? The volatiles from Petroleum products, (oil & gas), can evaporate & leave behind a soft gummy varnish on valve stems thus causing valves not to lift fast enough or not at all; hence, engine sputters, backfires through carburetor, & runs poorly.
 
Fiddling with the GAV doesn't seem to change much so it may be the problem. Everything on this car has been rebuilt or replaced, yet the carb look like the GAV was removed with vice-grips at one time or another so I guess I'll order one and see what happens. Maybe they torqued it too tight.

Thanks,
James
 
Hi James,

All above advice is no doubt outstanding.

Incidentally to make you feel much better, here are several "dumber" questions, i.e.:

1. Carburetor ..... what kind? A cast iron Zenith, a pot metal Tillotstons, a pot metal Sears Marvel?

2. Did your engine ever run smoothly? What was done between smooth running & now?

3. Was engine possibly not running for nearly a year or so? The volatiles from Petroleum products, (oil & gas), can evaporate & leave behind a soft gummy varnish on valve stems thus causing valves not to lift fast enough or not at all; hence, engine sputters, backfires through carburetor, & runs poorly.


It is a Zenith and it did set for several month before I got it. It seemed to run smooth when we loaded it on the trailer. It had a bad cut out when I got it. I replaced it and drained the fuel from the settling bowl and put fresh gas in it. I thought that I may have stirred up some trash in it but I didn't see anything in the gas coming from the tank. I do remember moving the GAV to set it to the 1/4 open that I have read about. I bought my first model a a few years ago, it had been sitting for several years with some burnt wiring. I drained it, pulled the carb, cleaned it, replaced the wiring, points and condenser and it ran fine this one just has me stumped.

James
 
Jim

Even though you drained the tank and added fresh fuel there could still be small particles in the fuel tank causing havoc with the carb. To eliminate a fuel problem I installed an in line fuel filter and it eliminated the problem I had. The filter has to be the paper type and not the screen strainer type . I can't stress enough how important clean fuel is.

The carb also has to be rebuilt properly. You have to make sure all passages are clear, the float doesn't leak and adjusted properly, along with the jets being the proper size. It could well be the Gav. Remember to open the GAV several turns before you try to unscrew the GAV tube before removing or installing the new one . If you don't you can ruin the needle or seat.

Years ago my a Father had a carb problem and was so frustrated he bought a new repo Zenith carb. It ran worse. Recently 15 years later I had to get the car going and took this new carb apart and found the jets to be poor quality along with the float. I properly rebuilt it and it ran pretty good.

When you know there is no grit getting to the carb and it is rebuilt correctly if it still runs rough you need to check other areas such as timing, compression, spark etc.

Without knowing the history of the vehicle it's a process of elimination.
 
Hi James,

It really takes a dumb person to write this much to answer a dumb question, but, based on your initial, very intelligent questions:

"I am having trouble with the carb. It is over loading, sputtering, and backfiring through the carb. I've had it apart and cleaned it but it is still getting too much gas. It will run out while the engine is running. I have read in some other threads about checking the float valve but how do I do that? also could this flooding be the cause of the sputtering and backfire?"

And like all of the other kind gentlemen willing to assist, with all of us not being able to "see" & "hear" what you are experiencing, or if your gas tank is cruddy, here are a few very old vintage suggestions:

Part 1, Causes:

1. First, if you still have your other Model A, you could try switching out entire components such as the carburetor, distributor, etc., to diagnose causes of the engine not functioning properly because of a component problem; but I'll assume you do not still have you other Model A; so,

2. Second, if the carburetor is flooding & getting too much gas, the only 3 carburetor parts that I can initially think of that can cause carburetor flooding are:

a. Choke: Your choke is closed & not open all of the way; hence, sucking more fuel & far less or no air; and/or,

b. Float: Your float is either leaking & sinking in lieu of floating; not adjusted properly; and/or, is hitting the sides of the carburetor bowl; hence, not moving up & down to operate the float valve which stops the fuel flow when the float actually "floats". This is also known as the float is "sticking" or "getting stuck" .

c. Float Valve: The shut-off element in your float valve is not sealing the float valve after the carburetor bowl is partially full of fuel & the float is "floating"; and/or the float valve has no sealing fiber washers and/or no impermeable "red" washer(s) which are designed to seal fuel flow. A dirty tank with dirty fuel can allow dirt to lodge in the float valve & keep the float valve in the "open" position causing bowl flooding.

Part 2, The Fix:

A. If not already on hand, please first go to a parts store to buy a pressured spray can of "any" kind of "carburetor" cleaner formulated to clean carburetors.

B. Carefully take your carburetor apart into 2 halves & remove the float. Then proceed to a stove, fill a small pot with water, allow the water to boil, turn off fire so you see no boiling water bubbles & turbulence, & submerge the float in the hot water.

C. If you do not see small bubbles exiting the float you do not have a float leak; however, if bubbles, mark bubble exit hole(s) with a lead pencil where the float hole(s) have to be sealed with solder. If soldered, try again to repeat the leak test. If float is bent up badly & leaks, just order a new float with float pin.

D. With a wrench, remove float valve which contacted the float near the float hinge. With spray carburetor cleaner use the combined compressed air & fluid to clean the float valve & the float valve opening in the top half of the carburetor. If it has a rubber (Viton) tip, it could have partially dissolved with new 10% ethanol gas or have gotten disfigured if over compressed when setting float height -- if so, order a spare float valve with a "metal" tip -- never a bad idea to have a spare float valve. Did the float valve have a "red" washer? If not call to order a at least 2 sets of float valve washers. Next, dry fuel out of float valve & blow in it with the shut-off device open & closed -- with device closed, there should be no air passage. Reinstall float valve initially with one (1) "red" washer(s). It can be fine tuned much later.

E. Reinstall the float with float pin. Make sure the float cannot move from side to side on the hinge pin by slightly compressing the steel hinge pin retainers with a pliers -- if the float can move side to side it can get stuck & hang up on the sides of the bowl & cannot rise & float upwards to close the float valve.

F. Initially, turn the top carburetor half upside down & insure that the soldered seam in the float sits "level" when looking from the "front" side -- if not, carefully bend the float arm connection at the float until the float seam is perfectly level & "parallel" to the joint between the carburetor halves.

G. Next turn the upside down carburetor top half 90 degrees to look at the float from both sides. A rough initial setting that will get a Model A started every time is to provide the soldered float seam "parallel" to the joint between the 2 halves. Bend float arm at float & adjust. Millions of carburetor floats on all 1920's & 1930's vintage cars were set "parallel" & "level" this way by vintage mechanics.

H. Remove one jet at a time & spray cleaner through each brass jet hole until fluid exits indicating it is clean -- do same with all threaded holes in the cast iron carburetor.

I. Turn carburetor top half upside down & back again to insure the float both "closes" & "shuts-off" the float valve & allows the float valve to again "open" -- listen for the "click".

J. Reassemble carburetor -- then listen for float valve "click" prior to installing same -- if "no" click is heard, disassemble & adjust float because the float is "sticking" ..... unless you are partially deaf like me where I ask my wife to listen.

K. Install carburetor & let us know what happened with carburetor flooding.

L. Float level fine tuning can be accomplished later using Renner's fuel level tool for measuring & adjusting exact fuel levels.
 
Last edited:
Hi James,

No sweat -- I like your car & your whitewalls & I like the Smokey Mountains ..... if you get your car running you'll make everybody everywhere happy.
 
I would like to offer a suggestion for checking the integrity of the float seat. A method I have used for years isince to use the Mighty Vac tool, a small hand operated hand operated air pump, on the fuel inlet of the carburetor. With the carb. turned up side down pressurize the inlet. A good seat should hold 7 psi air pressure or more without a pressure drop. It has worked for me for years.
 
i just had asimilar problem, took my carb apart and blew it all out.. pulled out all the needles and put back together and it runs good, but still seems like it wont rev up with out sputtering out, but dosent die..

I haven't read all of the posts on this thread and this may have already been mentioned .Here is another possibility. The knob on the choke rod that controls the GAV may be loose and spinning on the choke rod. The Gav may be closed all the way and if the knob is a threaded repro, You could think that you are opening the GAV when only the knob is turning and not the main choke rod. This has happened to me and many others in the past. If its sputtering and popping, its more than likely running lean. Check the knob and try opening the GAV by turning the knob counter clockwise untill it smoothes out. You will need the GAV opened more untill the engine warms up. If after all of this and the GAV still has no effect the problem will probably be a vacume leak. it can be anywhere from where the carburetor connects to the intake manifold to the vacume wiper connection or wiper motor its self , if a vacume wiper is used. Float setting has been discussed on another thread. If you are using ethanol added fuel, this also could be a problem. Ethanol added fuel is unstable and if it sits in the tank for a month or sometimes less it can cause the problems that you are having. Ethanol really plays hell with older cars, lawn mowers, weed eaters, power saws and other machines that don't get used every day. Good luck and keep us posted.
 
I haven't read all of the posts on this thread and this may have already been mentioned .Here is another possibility. The knob on the choke rod that controls the GAV may be loose and spinning on the choke rod. The Gav may be closed all the way and if the knob is a threaded repro, You could think that you are opening the GAV when only the knob is turning and not the main choke rod. This has happened to me and many others in the past. If its sputtering and popping, its more than likely running lean. Check the knob and try opening the GAV by turning the knob counter clockwise untill it smoothes out. You will need the GAV opened more untill the engine warms up. If after all of this and the GAV still has no effect the problem will probably be a vacume leak. it can be anywhere from where the carburetor connects to the intake manifold to the vacume wiper connection or wiper motor its self , if a vacume wiper is used. Float setting has been discussed on another thread. If you are using ethanol added fuel, this also could be a problem. Ethanol added fuel is unstable and if it sits in the tank for a month or sometimes less it can cause the problems that you are having. Ethanol really plays hell with older cars, lawn mowers, weed eaters, power saws and other machines that don't get used every day. Good luck and keep us posted.

To start i ordered the champion w18 spark plugs at napa they will be here tomorrow. the GAV is a original one..i also have been using marvel mystery oil in my gas and engine oil..i ll also look for intake leeks too, it doesnt have any wiper assembly in it..so that could be the issue..?
i will be putting some time on the A this week and will keep you posted on what it is doing.. i will soon get a pic posted of grandpasA when i get one on this computer..:D
 
Hi James,

It really takes a dumb person to write this much to answer a dumb question, but, based on your initial, very intelligent questions:

"I am having trouble with the carb. It is over loading, sputtering, and backfiring through the carb. I've had it apart and cleaned it but it is still getting too much gas. It will run out while the engine is running. I have read in some other threads about checking the float valve but how do I do that? also could this flooding be the cause of the sputtering and backfire?"

And like all of the other kind gentlemen willing to assist, with all of us not being able to "see" & "hear" what you are experiencing, or if your gas tank is cruddy, here are a few very old vintage suggestions:

Part 1, Causes:

1. First, if you still have your other Model A, you could try switching out entire components such as the carburetor, distributor, etc., to diagnose causes of the engine not functioning properly because of a component problem; but I'll assume you do not still have you other Model A; so,

2. Second, if the carburetor is flooding & getting too much gas, the only 3 carburetor parts that I can initially think of that can cause carburetor flooding are:

a. Choke: Your choke is closed & not open all of the way; hence, sucking more fuel & far less or no air; and/or,

b. Float: Your float is either leaking & sinking in lieu of floating; not adjusted properly; and/or, is hitting the sides of the carburetor bowl; hence, not moving up & down to operate the float valve which stops the fuel flow when the float actually "floats". This is also known as the float is "sticking" or "getting stuck" .

c. Float Valve: The shut-off element in your float valve is not sealing the float valve after the carburetor bowl is partially full of fuel & the float is "floating"; and/or the float valve has no sealing fiber washers and/or no impermeable "red" washer(s) which are designed to seal fuel flow. A dirty tank with dirty fuel can allow dirt to lodge in the float valve & keep the float valve in the "open" position causing bowl flooding.

Part 2, The Fix:

A. If not already on hand, please first go to a parts store to buy a pressured spray can of "any" kind of "carburetor" cleaner formulated to clean carburetors.

B. Carefully take your carburetor apart into 2 halves & remove the float. Then proceed to a stove, fill a small pot with water, allow the water to boil, turn off fire so you see no boiling water bubbles & turbulence, & submerge the float in the hot water.

C. If you do not see small bubbles exiting the float you do not have a float leak; however, if bubbles, mark bubble exit hole(s) with a lead pencil where the float hole(s) have to be sealed with solder. If soldered, try again to repeat the leak test. If float is bent up badly & leaks, just order a new float with float pin.

D. With a wrench, remove float valve which contacted the float near the float hinge. With spray carburetor cleaner use the combined compressed air & fluid to clean the float valve & the float valve opening in the top half of the carburetor. If it has a rubber (Viton) tip, it could have partially dissolved with new 10% ethanol gas or have gotten disfigured if over compressed when setting float height -- if so, order a spare float valve with a "metal" tip -- never a bad idea to have a spare float valve. Did the float valve have a "red" washer? If not call to order a at least 2 sets of float valve washers. Next, dry fuel out of float valve & blow in it with the shut-off device open & closed -- with device closed, there should be no air passage. Reinstall float valve initially with one (1) "red" washer(s). It can be fine tuned much later.

E. Reinstall the float with float pin. Make sure the float cannot move from side to side on the hinge pin by slightly compressing the steel hinge pin retainers with a pliers -- if the float can move side to side it can get stuck & hang up on the sides of the bowl & cannot rise & float upwards to close the float valve.

F. Initially, turn the top carburetor half upside down & insure that the soldered seam in the float sits "level" when looking from the "front" side -- if not, carefully bend the float arm connection at the float until the float seam is perfectly level & "parallel" to the joint between the carburetor halves.

G. Next turn the upside down carburetor top half 90 degrees to look at the float from both sides. A rough initial setting that will get a Model A started every time is to provide the soldered float seam "parallel" to the joint between the 2 halves. Bend float arm at float & adjust. Millions of carburetor floats on all 1920's & 1930's vintage cars were set "parallel" & "level" this way by vintage mechanics.

H. Remove one jet at a time & spray cleaner through each brass jet hole until fluid exits indicating it is clean -- do same with all threaded holes in the cast iron carburetor.

I. Turn carburetor top half upside down & back again to insure the float both "closes" & "shuts-off" the float valve & allows the float valve to again "open" -- listen for the "click".

J. Reassemble carburetor -- then listen for float valve "click" prior to installing same -- if "no" click is heard, disassemble & adjust float because the float is "sticking" ..... unless you are partially deaf like me where I ask my wife to listen.

K. Install carburetor & let us know what happened with carburetor flooding.

L. Float level fine tuning can be accomplished later using Renner's fuel level tool for measuring & adjusting exact fuel levels.

my thoughts too, i had a float that floated when submerged but just wouldn't float enough and cause the fuel flow to stop all the way. Different float fixed that issue.
 
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