All Original Is Unsafe

[rfitzpatrick]

The Model T was a lot less safe than the Model A.[/QUOTE]


Don't the T have a speedometer that tops at 65 MPH?
I can't imagine what's that's like looking thru that windshield

 

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Model A’s weren’t safe when they were new. People didn’t know the difference. Who would know what 100 years would bring in car technology.

That logic makes sense, ...and I suppose the same thing can be said about our brand new cars today. They are not safe either compared to what we will likely be driving in a few decades from now.

The Model T was a lot less safe than the Model A.

Don't the T have a speedometer that tops at 65 MPH?
I can't imagine what's that's like looking thru that windshield[/QUOTE]

Mine on my 1909 actually reads 60mph. Yes, 60mph in that car would likely be unimaginable. For most of my own Model-Ts, I can safely keep up on a tour with most Model-As. At faster speeds, I generally run out of steering ability followed by braking ability before I ever run out of power. The same thing can be said for most 'restored' Model-As on tour. Think about that!!

 

[Kurt in NJ]

The model t came without a speedometer ( at least on my 17 and many other years
The model A speedometer in my car tops out at 75.
There are a lot of prize winning “restored” cars that I would be afraid to drive over 35.
A very low percentage of cars are truly restored to original tolerances ,specifications and function — a lot of modifications are done to compensate for incomplete restoration

 

[Tom F OHIO]

Clifford where did you mount your switch at??

 

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

The model t came without a speedometer ( at least on my 17 and many other years
The model A speedometer in my car tops out at 75.
There are a lot of prize winning “restored” cars that I would be afraid to drive over 35. A very low percentage of cars are truly restored to original tolerances ,specifications and function — a lot of modifications are done to compensate for incomplete restoration

Yes, Speedometers were installed starting in mid-year of 1909, and were standard equipment on all 1910 thru mid-year of 1915 -and then optional from M1915 thru EoP.

 

[JayJay]

A very low percentage of cars are truly restored to original tolerances, specifications and function — a lot of modifications are done to compensate for incomplete restoration

I cannot count the number of cars I’ve seen that cosmetically look pretty good but mechanically are very poor. That’s backwards to me.

 

[nkaminar]

Brent, What was the speed limit in 1909 when the Model T was first introduced? I recall it being 25 mph, but it was a long time ago and hard to remember details that far back.

 

[Synchro909]

We are just back from a 3,300 miles tour and mixed it with modern traffic all the way. I'd HATE to have to do that in an original car, which mine is most definitely not. I estimate I have about 90 HP under my foot, synchro cog box and O/D. Even then, I had to work it hard at times to stay out of trouble. With those upgrades to "GO", I have upgrades to "WHOA" too and seat belts, even though it is near impossible to legally install them here. Don't get me started on that topic!

 

[nkaminar]

Welcome back. Please start a new thread about your trip, with photos.

 

[Brendan]

I agree with Bob B about sensible upgrades over original to improve your chances of seeing and being seen. I also agree with Keith True about the “armchair experts” who expound, often vociferously and adamantly, without investment. Here in California motorcycles are allowed to “lane share”, which means that a motorcycle can pass between two lanes of traffic if there is physical room even if not a full open lane. Very useful in beep-and-creep traffic, and quite reasonable if done carefully and respectfully. I cannot count the number of people who used to tell me how stupid I was to do this - none of them riders themselves. (I don’t ride any more, but for different reasons than traffic safety).

And Brent - to your point, it seems to me that a good portion of the cars I’ve seen on club tours that end up with roadside seminars were previously restored (maybe back in the early heydays of this hobby) but maybe not a whole lot of attention since then. We are spoiled by modern cars being so reliable. Hell, you don’t even need to check your tire pressure any more, just wait for an idiot light! I remember my dad had a first weekend of the month routine that included tire pressure, battery water, oil, transmission, air filter, rear end, lights, belts, hoses, and likely more. Not to mention things that were mileage-driven like oil change, lube and valve adjustment. I know I am guilty of pretty much ignoring my own modern cars, maybe because they are not much fun to work on (how excited can you get changing oil on a Prius?) But I do try to keep up with the Model As.

splitting lanes is on the freeway, i would never drive my Model A on the freeway or an interstate

 

[shiver]

The model t came without a speedometer ( at least on my 17 and many other years
The model A speedometer in my car tops out at 75.
There are a lot of prize winning “restored” cars that I would be afraid to drive over 35.
A very low percentage of cars are truly restored to original tolerances ,specifications and function — a lot of modifications are done to compensate for incomplete restoration

That is, I’m my opinion why babbit gets a bad rap.. folks paint and engine and think it’s restored, when the hammer out a center main they blame it on bearing construction, not lack of correct maintenance

 

[bkensinger]

In my opinion, it is not safe to drive an all original Model "A" and "AA." As a minimum, a driving car / truck must have:
> A 2nd taillight;
> LED taillights or much brighter incandescent taillight bulbs;
> An outside mirror on both sides of the vehicle;
> Turn signals;
> Safety glass in every window;
> A cast aluminum or 6-blade plastic cooling fan;
> Cast iron front brake drums;
> Complete set of reproduction wiring.
Having the experiences of having driven my Model A's many thousands of miles since 1962, there is no way I can be convinced otherwise. Original Model "A" & "AA" vehicles are for trailering to shows only, and not for driving in modern traffic for any reason.

Everything you said is true!

 

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Brent, What was the speed limit in 1909 when the Model T was first introduced? I recall it being 25 mph, but it was a long time ago and hard to remember details that far back.

Neil I honestly have no idea. My speedometer is authentic to the 1909 Ford only, so I am not sure why they put the 60 mph on there. Contrary to what many believe, a 100% totally stock Model-T will easily run along at speeds in the mid-40 mph range. Maybe Henry it was a marketing ploy to have a speedo that showed 60 much like automakers today install speedometers that have 100 mph yet these vehicles are typically governed to top out somewhere in the mid 80s.

Everything you said is true!

Bob, have you ever driven, -or ridden in a low mileage original Model-A? For the ones of us that have, there really is not a comparison to one that is worn beyond factory specifications. That is why many have discussed many cars are unsafe because they were poorly restored.

 

[Bob Bidonde]

Wow! This is a hot topic, right up there with motor oil. Thanks all for your opinions, I much enjoyed reading them, but I am still strongly of the opinion that originality in modern traffic is not safe. I just returned from the 67th New England Meet in Rocky Hill, Connecticut where over 100 Model A's attended. Only the show car trailer queens were original. All of 100+ model A's in the parking lot that drove to the meet had some safety modifications.

 

[JayJay]

splitting lanes is on the freeway, i would never drive my Model A on the freeway or an interstate

“Never” is a pretty strong word, Brendan ��.

Something to consider, again a holdover from my motorcycling days: on the freeway all the cars are going in the same direction, reasonably organized by lane, with no right angle streets and intersections to contend with. You can’t say that about surface streets. Here in the SF Bay Area it’s pretty much impractical to get to many places without involving a freeway at one point or another. Same or perhaps more so with interstates, some places in the country you just can’t practically get there without interstates. When I do use the freeway I stay way over to the right, anticipate merges and off-ramps, keep a long way back from cars in front, and constantly watch the mirrors for the racers. I also try to drive early mornings rather than say mid-day or rush hour.

Yes, likely a collision on the freeway will have more serious consequences, Model A or modern car. But I’d offer that the chances of said collision are much less on a freeway than on a surface street, so I’m willing to drive on the freeway if I have to.

All the safety mods that modern cars have had, from padded dashes through seat belts and tire pressure monitoring systems, have been aimed at improving passenger survivability in a crash. Regrettably, there has been little effort towards improving driver competence to avoid a crash (and I’d argue that the quality of drivers during my adult life, especially since COVID lockdown, has significantly declined). We in this hobby are mostly of a generation that learned to drive well and has a lot of experience. Let’s use that experience to keep healthy. If you’re not comfortable with any aspect of driving, don’t do it. But I think a blanket statement that Model As, or any other car (including Corvairs, but don’t get me started on that), are “unsafe” is not warranted. It’s the act of driving outside of the driver’s and the car’s limitations that will cause hurt.

Morning need for a soapbox is now satisfied.

 

[Jeff/Illinois]

“Never” is a pretty strong word, Brendan ��.

. Regrettably, there has been little effort towards improving driver competence to avoid a crash (and I’d argue that the quality of drivers during my adult life, especially since COVID lockdown, has significantly declined). We in this hobby are mostly of a generation that learned to drive well and has a lot of experience.

JayJay you just said it all brudder.....


You can have the safest car built some dumb a++ is going to try to kill you in it no matter what you do.


Distracted drivers today.... geez where to begin....and have you noticed the huge monitor screens the car makers are installing on your dash for you to touch control everything from your radio to your heater?? Like that doesn't distract even more....take dem eyes off da road....



I was raised with 'Drive Defensively' in the early 70's, that applies more today than at any time in memory


Jim Morrison, 'Roadhouse Blues'....Keep your eyes on the road your hands up-on the wheel.............Amen

 

[1oldtimer]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA,


That list knocks out ALL my vehicles I drive. Granted some are not completely stock, but all are drum brake and the newer ones are stock (1956 and 1960). I don't own a new or modern car and don't have AAA....I have tools. I do have a cell phone and have broke down in some interesting areas before....but always made it home.


Like other have said, it's subjective to who, what and where.

 

[fried okra]

Old timer.....what kinda 1956 and 1960 vehicles you have?

Just curious