Adjustable lifters.

flathead4rd

flathead4rd

Well-known member
Have a couple of adjustable lifters that won't hold their settings. Suggestions? They are the solid type with the two groves not hollow. Yes, my lifter bores are drilled. I've heard about staking the adjuster but not sure what's involved with that. Can it be done without removing the lifter? What about LOCK TIGHT (red or green). Thanks for any and all replies.
 
You can use Loctite that will hold the adjustment just clean the adjuster threads and the lifter threads prior to adding Red Loctite.
Ronnieroadster
 
The plan I like best is to remove the screw part form the body of the lifter, put it in a vise, with soft jaws. This is to shorten the length, but just a dab. There are two parts to the threads, with a relief between them (This is the place to collapse). You'll see.

Now- I have not done this but it sounds good to me. And, what do you have to lose?

Kark
 
The threads use an "interference fit" between the two sections of the adjusting screw. As Karl noted, you can collapse the adjuster just a bit to cause more interference between the two sets of threads.

Obviously, if you compress it too much, you'll end up with too much interference and not be able to put the screw/adjuster in at all. If that doesn't work, then you can try the red Loctite method.
 
I used the 'end squeeze' nethod on 2 sets of old hollow johnson lifters last winter. Only needed one set, but I was on a roll. In the past I have been dissappointed with the adjustables I purchased online so did some research. I read that they should hold tight til about 60 in/lbs of torque was applied. I set about to attain that in my vice. I found this not only difficult to do with any regularity, but also found that 60 was very tight. With the special cap screw in the vice, I would gently tighten and it would get quite snug and then sort of collapse all at once. At that point they were about 40 in/lbs +/_. I finally stuck with that and eventually got a feel for what seemed right. Midway through I had one that I just felt needed two tugs on the vice handle. When I inserted that one and started cranking it down to my target install height I heard a faint click and sure enough the body cracked down its length. I stuck with the 40ish number and skipped the loctite. It does not take too long when fussing with adjustment for them to get looser. During final adjustment I decided to remove two that were becoming easier to turn and replaqce them with some tight ones from the next set. About 1500 miles so far and no tickers. Edit: To hold the lifter body while I cranked in the adjuster I drilled a 1" hole in a board and cross drilled for an allen wrench. I did not clamp the lifter in the vice. Hope some of this helps.
 

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I have exchanged screws with good results.
I believe both the inner and outer the threads were cut at the same time. The tightness come from moving either the top or bottom threads a little bit in or out. I suspect the outer threads were pushed in a slight amount. You could put a bolt just in the top threads and hit it.
 
I would not try to press on or modify the lifter body itself - it is cast iron and you're asking to crack it. Also, maybe you don't see the crack and at a later date the lifter fails, drops pieces into the cam, the cam breaks, then the rods break, then your whole engine is gone.

I take the adjuster OUT of the lifter body and compress it just a little bit - that causes the two sets of threads on the adjuster to misalign just a bit . . . which causes the interference fit.
 
Andy said:
I have exchanged screws with good results.
I believe both the inner and outer the threads were cut at the same time. The tightness come from moving either the top or bottom threads a little bit in or out. I suspect the outer threads were pushed in a slight amount. You could put a bolt just in the top threads and hit it.
Click to expand...

But really, for the PO's situation at the present, I think the loctite as mentioned above is the 'go to' fix. If it does not hold, then removal of heads and intake can follow later. Has anybody ever seen or used a lifter with a jamb nut? Seems these solid body types could handle a counterbore. Adjust with lifter on the toe, roll back down to check? I'm sure I'm missing something.
 
I've seen jamb nuts on them before - though there is not much room for the nut unless you have a big-*** lifting cam and the adjuster is sticking out a ways! LOL
 
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But Dale, doesn't the business end of the adjustable rise above the bore when the valve is lifted? Could you do the adjusting when it's up and then a quick rotate and check your work. I don't have an engine with exposed valves to check my question, and I've never done it that way because I use wimpy stock cams :)
PS I just made two custom 'jamb-nut' lifters that are both 1.720 tall (same as Henry's) with a few threads left to crank inwards if needed. Rainey Saturday afternoon and too much time on my hands.....
 
Hey GB, the issue becomes how far down is the adjuster as compared to the top of the lifter body. If there is enough room, then a jamb-nut can be used, if there is not, then you can't fit one in (and still get a wrench on it). With a high-lift cam, the base-circle of the cam is much smaller, so the adjuster needs to be much further out. While this gives you room for a jamb nut, it also means there are a lot less threads engaged in the lifter body.

Having the adjuster way out creates a problem for many folks - the adjuster is much further out than if used with a stock base-circle cam. This tends to result in less threads in "interference mode" and the adjusters are now too loose . . . and they become looser after the engine is running (they always back down, not up).

To deal with these issues I run longer valves with high-lift cams - so the adjuster does not have to be threaded way out to take up the slack . . . the longer valve (stock SBC length) does it for me. But now this creates a problem where the installed height of the spring has increased - so I don't have the spring pressure I need. (Always seems there are compound effects with this stuff!)

Fix for the Spring Height Issue: When I run the longer valves, I also take an aftermarket Crane retainer (for OHV double valve springs) and cut it down for my single flathead springs. These retainers are a lot thicker than stock, so they take up the extra space/length for the overall valve spring installed height. This trick means I don't have to run a bunch of .060 spring shims on the guide to achieve the spring pressure I need on the seat.

Hope I'm making some geometric sense here. :rolleyes:

Just a bunch of tricks to give me the best setup for high-lift cams (.375 and over). If anybody wants to know more, let me know.


Take care,
B&S
 
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I had a feeling that with the high lift cams that the majority of flathead builders are using the geometry would be off. I have zero experience with re-ground cams or valve spring shims and related parts. I have seen the scoop shapes hot-rodders do in the bores though. I'm not sure if what I cobbled up this afternoon could work with a stock cam. I also realize that in taking material off the top of the lifter body, the shorter length may cause wear problems in the lifter bores. All I really did was shorten the lifter bodies to make room for a jamb nut. The one on the left I removed .050 and then counterbored the center for the jamb nut which is .250 tall. You can see I used that cracked lifter so as not to spoil a good one. The other lifter with no countersink I removed .120 and made a thinner jamb nut @ 1.70 . I think the second one is way better even though the jamb nut is thinner. Both of these lifters still have a full 1/2" of threads in the lifter body. In a nutshell, shorten a lifter, add a jamb nut. Could work with otherwise stock valve train, not for hot rod engines. No guarantee on either :)
 

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Ronnieroadster said:
You can use Loctite that will hold the adjustment just clean the adjuster threads and the lifter threads prior to adding Red Loctite.
Ronnieroadster
Click to expand...

I would use blue Loctite here and not the red. The red would just make it more difficult for future adjustments.

From Loctite web page, ttps://tinyurl.com/p6rxxf9c:

"Threadlocker removal Removing threadlocker varies depending on the type you’re working with. For Loctite threadlocker blue, simply remove the bolt and nut with normal tools.
Loctite Threadlocker Red 271, is formulated to be a high strength thread locker, meaning it will require the localized heat of a blowtorch to weaken the bond. Here’s how it’s done.
You’ll need:

  • A blowtorch
  • Heat-resistant safety gloves
  • Safety glasses
  • A wrench"
Glenn
 
Use whatever makes yah happy! On my race car stuff (like Donovan gear drive bolts) and clutch plate bolts, I use the red. Yes, it is harder to unfasten . . . but that is why I use it. LOL
 
Bored&Stroked said:
Use whatever makes yah happy! On my race car stuff (like Donovan gear drive bolts) and clutch plate bolts, I use the red. Yes, it is harder to unfasten . . . but that is why I use it. LOL
Click to expand...

Exactly. Totally agree and I would also add Ronnieroadster for sure knows what loctite works best where.
 
Bored, can you give a part number for the Crane retainers you used to take up the slack? All they need is the OD trimmed down a bit?
 
I wrote that wrong, are actually Comp Cams parts - see the pictures below and a link to Jegs:

I take the retainer and turn it down on my lathe (just the OD) - the spring registers perfectly on the inner spring ID. I also taper them from the bottoms to reduce weight a bit. Only the top picture shows the tapering - the lower ones are before I do the taper operation. It only takes an hour or so to do all 16 of them . . .

The second picture down shows the difference in height as compared to the stock retainer on the left - you can see that it really helps reduce the need for too many shims.

Link:

https://www.jegs.com/i/COMP-Cams/249/743-16/10002/-1

Pics:

Retainer2 copy.jpg

Comp-Cams-Retainers2.jpg

Comp-Cams-Retainers1.jpg

ExhaustValveSetup.jpg
 
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