Abel started needed

Jim.Morris2831

Jim.Morris2831

Member
I haven't been on FordBarn for several years, at least not to post, but I've returned. A friend in my "A" club isn't computer-savvy, so I'm posting this request for him. He has an early Tudor and needs a working Abel starter. He's bought a couple starters only to find out that they have the 5/8" shaft, not the Abel's 1/2" shaft with a pinion to match his ring gear. All help on this is appreciated! Many thanks, Jim
 
My experience is that the same ring-gear is used both on early multi-plate clutch/flywheel assembly - and the bendix gear used on the 5/8 bendix will mate directly with an early ring gear.

I say mate - overhang of the 5/8 Bendix will cause the bendix to "jamb" in place against the earlier flywheel.

Modifications were frequently made to the flywheel to "cut off the corner" and allow the later 5/8" bendix to work. My July 28 AA truck came to me with this.

Another solution was offered by Ford with replacement of the Abell unit with a 1/2" bendix. These can be seen because one of the spring bolts has no head and is tightened with a slot instead of a hex. Ford in the Service Bulletins goes on at length about this after-production modification including cutting down a 5/8" shaft to take the then available 1/2" bendix. And in at least a couple of pages Ford repeats the parts outline for the "transition" bendix - there apparently was much confusion at the time.

1/2" shaft starters can be bought from Ebay - usually noted as such. Also, a bit more rarely is the 1/2 Transitional Bendix to match. There is not much different between most of these and the 5/8" starters - as long as they are (in the trade) the "type 2" or later starters.

Early type 1 starters (frequently advertised as Abell Starters) have other desirable for an early car characteristics: like a wide brush cover, bolts on the end covers, and possibly a square starter switch. But type 2 starters were also produced for use with the Abell unit - and "step shafts" (transition) - and 5/8" shaft (more similar to Type 3 in details)

The early Type 1 starters tend to be pricey - but you technically don't need all the details of the early starter. A later starter will do if made for later 1928 or someone has modified an even later version.

Warning though - there was a lot of "mix & match" of starters and parts during that era. You have to go to Ebay with a kind of an open mind about what you might find.

Most everything you need to know is in the Service Bulletins.

Joe K
 
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For rare parts for these starters and anything else Model A ( email below), Berts Model A Ford Center is good place to start.

parts@modelastore.com Steve Becker they have 500,000 original parts and He knows which parts interchange with which parts.

These parts are not listed on www.Modelastore.com because the inventory changes daily as new parts come in.
 
If you talk to one of the major Model A Suppliers, they will have the correct parts...Suggest you start with Arizona Model A...Sammy Guthrie...480-782-0266. He is a second generation Model A guy and is extremely knowledgeable. Tell him Ernie sent you! Ernie in Arizona
 
The Able was discontinued and a new bendix was designed to replace it for the multi disc clutches. The later type bendix will not clear the multi disc drum. Most folks changed over to the single disc clutch but that also requires a change to the later transmisson. They don't interchange. The starter is part of that change as well.

I wish you good fortune in searching for an early Able or a small shaft bendix. They aren't common anymore so it will be an ultimate challenge to find one.
 
Re: Abel starter needed

Many thanks for your replies, guys. My friend has been in touch with Steve Becker with Bert's, but he told me he's looking for an original Abel to simplify the fix. He's not a machinist and is disabled so he's limited in options. A swap, non-working to working Abel, is best choice for him. It's a long shot, but we're trying. You've shared great information.
 
There is a starter with an Abell engager on Ebay. But take a warning - the starter appears to be a combination of "parts." The Abell is there and the starter body itself is the "type 1" (i.e. desirable and the asking price reflects it) but it seems to have later type 2 end-plates and the later starter switch.

You would put perhaps $200 additional into bringing this starter to "date consistency."

As I said above in different words - "You pays your money you take your chances."

Not to critique - a lot of early parts go for considerably less simply because the sellers/buyers don't know what to look for. The trick is being in the right place at the right time.

You don't say if you got that far, but a LOT of flywheels got "cut down" to adapt them to the later starter. If you have a 5/8" starter complete, you might try it and see if it jams up.

Joe K
 
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We'll take a look at eBay, Joe. Thanks so much. You have good eyes. You're right about being very careful and of course price. I think my buddy already bought a starter off eBay, and it turned out it was not a fit and the guy refused to accept a return. Jim
 
I found photos of a drum fix for the multi disk clutch somewhere but I don't remember where. It may be in another thread on here some time back. The guy used the late type flywheel but had a straight sided or tubular drum that could be bolted to the late flywheel and had the splines cut in it likely by a shaper machine using an index table to hold the piece. The idea is solid and appears to clear the area on the drum where the late type larger diameter bendix would function. I'll see if I can find it again. I found this thread.
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=326611&highlight=multi+disk+flywheel

A person may be able to machine the flywheel to work if it's in good shape but I don't know if anyone has tried it before or not. I'm just looking for alternatives. It would take more processes to try to fabricate a replacement Able type drive or the Bendix replacement. None of it is easy.
 
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A true type 1 starter has end plates with FOUR bolts to hold it in place. Also the tell-tale ring of bolts around the outboard end to hold the brush holders.

There was a type 1 starter nearly complete that sold on Ebay for less than $100 in the last year. It was a bid sale and I didn't engage. One of those you kick yourself afterwards for not getting involved. But that is proof that they're certainly out there...

Type 2 starters WERE available with Abell - but were also used with the A-1150-DR special small diameter Bendix drive. Later Type 3 and beyond could be converted to use the small diameter Bendix - the instructions are given around page 303 of the Service Bulletins.

Type 2, 3, 4 starters are pretty much identical other than adaptation for the drive. Most would never know to see the date code on the brush cover band. My July 28 truck seems to have had a type 2 (Type 1 went out of production around March 28) but it SHOULD have been the small diameter bendix. Except someone cut off the corners of the flywheel to fit the probably type 3 starter it has now.

Someone is selling what they say are "Abell end plates" on Ebay. They're not really. Look like Type 2 end plates with the small 1/2" shaft hole. (but two mounting holes for the "through rods & nuts.")

A lot of Ebay stuff is being labeled "Abell" or even "AR" when it is not probably in attempt to pull in the market or raise price.

Joe K
 
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