A vote for a Digital Judging Standards

Locked searchable pdf

Marco, Here is how the "Green Bible" searchable pdf is locked. You can see by who, the registration screen, and the first open page of the "bible". You can also see the two related icons on the desktop.

Vince, Yeah, you can reverse engineer anything if there is enough ¥ (Yuan) in it. Solidworks, Autocad, Chief Architect, etc cost thousands ($, not ¥ !!) and have a huge market. I doubt anyone would go to all the trouble for a $50 disk that is revised yearly.
GreenBibleScreenshot.jpg
 
this is one of 138,000 hits on a search. I'm not sure of the security of that pdf...fwiw,jm
 

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I would pay thirty dollars for an APP with the Judging Standards.
I would probably also pay for a Bratton's Catalog APP.
I have some APPS that are just "content," with the sophistication of a photocopied book that has been indexed. They normally cost $2. Some like this are free.
I do not believe APPS can be transferred since, to my knowledge, they must be purchased from The Apple APP Store.
 
Jim Mason said:
this is one of 138,000 hits on a search. I'm not sure of the security of that pdf...fwiw,jm
Click to expand...

Jim, e-books are easily crackable, locked pdf's much more difficult. Keep searching, you will not find a cracked green bible out there, nor a code generator that will easily open it every time. All the cracked stuff has a big following, the green bible much less. With the risk of embedded worms and Trojans in cracked stuff, I wonder why anyone would ever risk such a download.

With the exception of a handful here on Fordbarn, the model A crowd is not all that computer literate. Look at all the guys who can't figure how to post a picture! Not the crowd to deal with clandestine downloads.

Sometimes optimism is more productive than pessimism. Sure, cracking is possible. All new cars eventually break down, too. So why manufacture them? Optimism, not pessimism.

P.S. Miss your website!
 
I am surprised by how many of you are afraid that a digital version of the judging standards would be copied.

By the same logic the paper based judging standards should never have been made available in a loose-leaf / binder format.

The modern high capacity photocopier we have at work would make me 10 copies of the paper based judging standards while I am having my morning coffee.

Anyway, why not place the judging standards on the MARC/MAFCA websites and sell password protected yearly subscriptions ?
 
Well, let's go a different direction. This seemingly is just another instance where this specific area of the hobby has yet another hurdle to overcome to participate in successfully.

The basic mission statement of both clubs is to restore and maintain the Ford Model A as they were originally manufactured. I frequent this forum enough, --and speak daily with folks in this hobby that will openly state that getting information or obtaining knowledge regarding what is authentic is an absolute 'Pain in the @$$'! You would think that if either club (--or their speciaty group) is truly interested in promoting their mission of authenticity & correct restoration, they would embrace whatever technology is available to make that easier for their membership. I just can't help but think that if most folks (Model A hobbyists) perceive the JS book as a value to them, they would make the purchase the correct way.

The same mindset would likely apply to digital versions too, ...and so what if the club loses out on selling 20-30 digital versions a year due to piracy (only about $1,000-$1,500) of their copy, chances are that pirated copy is not really being used anyway. If that was the case, very possible they would have never been a candidate to purchase a paper-copy anyway so if my theory really has any merit, has either club really lost any revenue?



And, while I am still on my "soapbox", I truly wish the the partnership between the two clubs with regard to the Restoration Guideline & Judging Standards book's ownership & copyrights would be dissolved and the rights of this book be given equally to each club to do as they see fit in the future from that point on. After that point, if one club wants to make revisions or updates while the other one does not, they are free to do so.

.
 
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Eystein, I think that you have something there. A password protected website would be fine for 99% of us users. As this thread has shown you can copy and distribute the current JS if so motivated.

When I first got on Ahooga years ago I was pleased to see how fast questions could be answered, how photos could help explain things. We need to come up with ways to help those seeking to restore their A's. Disseminating information should be a top priority.

From the posts we can see that there are many tech savvy folks on this site. I'd really like to focus on how to make digitally available. Piracy, though an issue, should not keep us from helping our hobby with a digital JS. I think that there is a universal agreement that digital information would be useful. Now, how can it be done?

Right now I can digitally photograph every page and have a JS in my computer. But there has to be a better way to access information. My personal favorite would be to retype the entire JS and make certain words hot links to photos and/or other information. Is the JS currently digitized? Could a person like me be given permission to begin making a digitized JS that could be used via the Internet? Where does one start?

Thanks folks.

Dean
 
FREE FREE I vote for FREE

First a response to RonC. The first 10 years of The Restorer are available on a DVD. I scanned in the first 10 years and put them on a DVD. It is available from MAFCA on their web site. http://www.mafca.com/pub_dvds.html

Why not make the Restoration/Judging Standards available for free in an electronic format. I know some will protest this as a loss of revenue. There are several reasons why I think not. First most people will also want hard copy of the Standards. True many will just get the electronic version, however most of them would not have purchased the hard copy anyway. I do not think the print version will loose that many sales. But what if there is a significant loss in sales. The reason revenue is needed for the Standards is to pay for their production. The production costs are for the printing and travel expenses. With electronic copies there is no printing expenses. As for the travel expenses I would point out that with today's technology video conferencing is easy. Most if not all of the meetings could be done online. If we are going to move into the 21st century we might as well really move. Perhaps it is too soon for my ideas but eventually I believe the clubs will move in this direction.

Bob
 
On the video conferences...I have to sit in a number of them a month for my work. They are absolute torture. If it involves more than reviewing text/spreadsheets/ etc. they aren't productive. Anytime some one brings in a photo of a widget, invariable I want to see it from a different angle and can't. I have trouble staying focused for more than a couple hours. I also sat through the 8+ hour JSC meetings for MAFCA for several years and while long, they were productive. The show and tell on parts brought in, the 'lets go take a look at the 24,000 mile original to see', what color is that?, what level of gloss? and all the other visual aspects of those meetings would be difficult at best on a video conference. Also while it is possible to have debate, it certainly is a different experience and less useful on video...fwiw,jm
 
So from the perspective of someone new to the hobby, we could come at this topic from a positive perspective and assume that most people will behave honorably. The notion of a password-protected website makes complete sense and would work with these folks. Those who are compelled to cheat, and I bet they would be a distinct minority, are no loss to the majority who are willing to pay for access. And we would make the hobby far more accessible to those who are involved now and, more importantly, to the next generation of enthusiasts. That generation, by any measure, will not understand a hobby that has its technological feet firmly mired in the 1950's.
 
I've been debating with myself on this all day. (I often lose those debates). I have digital versions (ocr'd for my own use), and find that they are not as useful as I thought they would be. I made a list of all the parts based on plating. I made a list of all the fasteners I would need by size and type. And a few other lists. All specific to a late 28 Tudor. After that, I really don't use the digital versions. I keep a 5x7 version in my swap meet haversack. I keep a full size version (second purchase) in the garage. I really don't want to be fiddling with computers when I'm up to my elbows in something.

It kinda strikes me as a digital cookbook. Really cool in concept, not worth crap in reality. Once you've found the recipes you want, and printed them, you're done with the digital version...fwiw,jm (iconoclastic I know)
 
Jim, I agree with you on the limited usefulness of video conferencing for a JS meeting but don't fully agree with you on the cookbook analogy. Though digital information's usefulness might be limited at a swap meet it would still be available via a phone, ipad, etc.

I think of how Ahooga and Fordbarn have helped our hobby. Jim, your own website is a great example of digital usefulness. I have referred many a hobbyist to your site to check out photos, explanations, etc. Also Marco, Vince et al. have wonderful websites that inform and inspire. It is time that we do the same with the JS.

A digital cookbook might not be worth a crap but a digital JS, digital factory blueprints, digital factory and hobbyist photos would certainly be worth it.

Dean
 
dean from bozeman said:
Jim, I agree with you on the limited usefulness of video conferencing for a JS meeting but don't fully agree with you on the cookbook analogy. Though digital information's usefulness might be limited at a swap meet it would still be available via a phone, ipad, etc.

I think of how Ahooga and Fordbarn have helped our hobby. Jim, your own website is a great example of digital usefulness. I have referred many a hobbyist to your site to check out photos, explanations, etc. Also Marco, Vince et al. have wonderful websites that inform and inspire. It is time that we do the same with the JS.

A digital cookbook might not be worth a crap but a digital JS, digital factory blueprints, digital factory and hobbyist photos would certainly be worth it.

Dean
Click to expand...

But wait a minute here Dean...the above statement would put the Ford Archives out of business as they would not be collecting their $20-50.00 for "factory blueprints", $5.00 for each individual part release or Engineering Information release; let alone what ever it costs to retrieve a photo from them!

Pluck
 
My site was a good example. The number of hits dropped tremendously over the last 2 years of it's life. I was getting nearly a total of 1000 pages accesses a day at it's peak. At the end, maybe 25. Once the information was available, most likely printed or saved locally, the usefulness just wasn't there. It would be the same with a digital RG&JS, once the information was garnered very few would access it. Yes I know, you can 'prevent people from printing or saving'...but you can't. It's a simple process, and the younger generation is very good at it.

I enjoy the debate....fwiw,jm
 
Jim Mason said:
My site was a good example. The number of hits dropped tremendously over the last 2 years of it's life. I was getting nearly a total of 1000 pages accesses a day at it's peak. At the end, maybe 25. Once the information was available, most likely printed or saved locally, the usefulness just wasn't there. It would be the same with a digital RG&JS, once the information was garnered very few would access it. Yes I know, you can 'prevent people from printing or saving'...but you can't. It's a simple process, and the younger generation is very good at it.

I enjoy the debate....fwiw,jm
Click to expand...

Jim,

Question...with all of the valuable information for which you had on your site, it was sad that you took it down.

What would of been the chances of you "giving" the information to another reputable "Model A/AA Ford only" site so the information could still be available to all of us, including the newbies coming on board?

I could of done it if that was the case. Hopefully...maybe it still can be done?

Pluck
 
Jim, there are a number of factory blueprints in the hands of hobbyists. Could they be digitize and saved by us or is that an infringement on copyright?

As for your site, it still was and would be useful if saved on another A/AA site like Pluck recommends. At the end 25 folks were still accessing it for information. Without it, 25 people have less of an opportunity to gather needed information. You did an amazing job as a "one man show". Now think about a dynamic, viable site that could continue to grow and evolve under the watchful eyes of a committee.

This whole thread is about sharing information in a useful, easily accessible format.

I vote for a digital JS on line that has hot links to photos that would help illustrate the points being made with words.

That's it.
Thanks.
Dean
 
dean from bozeman said:
Jim, there are a number of factory blueprints in the hands of hobbyists. Could they be digitize and saved by us or is that an infringement on copyright?

As for your site, it still was and would be useful if saved on another A/AA site like Pluck recommends. At the end 25 folks were still accessing it for information. Without it, 25 people have less of an opportunity to gather needed information. You did an amazing job as a "one man show". Now think about a dynamic, viable site that could continue to grow and evolve under the watchful eyes of a committee.

This whole thread is about sharing information in a useful, easily accessible format.

I vote for a digital JS on line that has hot links to photos that would help illustrate the points being made with words.

That's it.
Thanks.
Dean
Click to expand...

Dean,

Is time to put up a "poll" to see just how the board feels on this or is more discussion needed?

Pluck
 
I don’t know if my comments will help/hinder this discussion, but my skin is pretty thick. When I began my ‘journey’ I collected everything I could lay my hands on referring to the ‘early’ ’28 (mine is a January 28).

Using the 1/1/28 Parts List I developed a ‘table’ of various parts, listed by the “A” number. Starting with the JStandards and at least 10 years back on the club magazines (i.e. Doc K’s articles), Mick’s hardware manual, Service Bulletins, etc., I added descriptions (start/end dates, sizes, colors, etc.) of the various parts. Wherever available, I scanned photos/illustrations and embedded them in the table (since I have no intention of selling my tables, I don’t think copyright is a concern). Needless, to say there is a LOT of conflicting information out there! As I have ‘E-met’ many of the ‘early’ guys we have exchanged information and photos as specific questions arose … constantly updating my tables. I have also gained a wealth of information from ‘lurking’ here on Fordbarn and from asking specific questions. Again, the information is sometimes conflicting. Since I am only watching a very small window of time, I can’t imagine the complexity the JS committee must endure.

What I have come up with is a personally satisfying document which has been very helpful in my restoration process. As some of you know from my frequent intrusions into your in-box, I have used this same format to develop a ‘wishlist’ of items I am seeking. My hope is that this helps readily identify what I need.

I guess this is a long winded diatribe in support of some sort of process whereby we can marry credible information along with photos of credible parts. Certainly, a repository of close-up detail photos of the ‘original’ vehicles is a good start as well as a photo comparison of NOS vs. repro parts.

While I don’t have any advanced computer skills, I would be happy to help with the ‘grunt work’ (typing/scanning) in any way I can. I would be happy to share my table with anyone with an interest … might even be a template for something like what Dean is suggesting.
 
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