'A' spring mounts on a '40 rear...

PeteVS

PeteVS

Well-known member
How many ways are there to mount a Model A spring on a '40 rear (directly over the axle centerline?) I've seen Tim Ayer's, but I'm not sure that the parts are still available and the welding looked kind of substantial. Anyone got pix and a description of what they've done? Thanks!!

(Come to think of it, has anyone ever stretched an 'A' frame and moved the crossmember behind the axle and used the stock '40 mounts on the rear radius rods? That might eliminate Z'ing? Would that create massive body headaches?)
 
I have a little rpu 28 going together with a quickie and I turned the bells end for end and mounted the spring in front. I wanted a little longer wheelbase.
 
I've toyed with the idea of stretching the frame that magic 7 inches or so and repositioning the crossmember to pick up the original rear axle spring mounting for the 35 through 41 rear axle types. I found some pictures in Tex Smith's chassis book and several folks have posted pictures on the HAMB of such a set up. I always felt that going from the original rear frame stubs and fabricating the structure with a kick up slightly inboard would be a very sanitary way to do this alteration. It would clear the original body better to keep the modifications more limited to the rear trunk pan and rumble seat riser floor pan and not to the subframe sections. It is difficult to weld on the axle bells without warping them plus the spring behind solves problems with the rear brake cylinders and also can potentially lower the rear more if that is desired.

Kerby
 
Pete

I've done exactly what you have desribed. Can't remember who I bought the weld on hangers from but I'll keep looking. I do remember that it took allot of grinding to get a nice fit to the 40 axle bells and to smoothe the hangar edges. One problem I encountered was spacing the hangars too cloos to the backing plates and making it very difficult to attach the rear brake lines. I used the spring perch eyelet to eyelet measurement from my Model A coupe for spacing the hangers and this got me in trouble.

If you leave a nice 45 degree inward taper to the bottom the finished hangers you will have a very strong weld after its filled.

Hope this helps
Bill
 
Bill Batson said:
Pete

I've done exactly what you have desribed. Can't remember who I bought the weld on hangers from but I'll keep looking. I do remember that it took allot of grinding to get a nice fit to the 40 axle bells and to smoothe the hangar edges. One problem I encountered was spacing the hangars too cloos to the backing plates and making it very difficult to attach the rear brake lines. I used the spring perch eyelet to eyelet measurement from my Model A coupe for spacing the hangers and this got me in trouble.

If you leave a nice 45 degree inward taper to the bottom the finished hangers you will have a very strong weld after its filled.

Hope this helps
Bill
Click to expand...

Were the hangers welded onto the "sheet steel" portion of the axle housing or to the forged portion out at the ends?
 
I did this for my AV8 using '40 rear end. The brackets I used while new looked like the end of a leaf spring cut off with the eyelets. Mine came with a radius to more or less fit over the axle tube. I ground a large chamfer on both sides and generally made them look more finished before installing them. I don't have any problem with brake tube access.
I made up a fixture to keep alingment between the two while I tack welded them in place.
This is shown rather nicley in the Bishop-Tardell book and Vern Tardell might even sell these. As I described it above, take an old main leaf with the same width as your spring, cut about 3 inches back from the eyelet and you have your hanger.
The thing about reversing the bells is that your tire will no longer be in the center of the wheel arch and may cause interference with radius arms.
I don't have pictures available from this computer. I could email them to you if you still needed to see more.
 
I like the ones from Pete & Jakes better since they weld across the housing instead of spanwise. The ductile steel ones from Specialty Ford Parts are even stronger but require more weldment due to the thicker cross section. They have to be welded by TIG with a slow approach otherwise you can warp the hell out of the bells. A little bit at a time to keep it cool and back and forth will do it without major warpage.

Kerby
 
I extended mine 7 1/2" using an "A" spring and used 39/40 rear banjo, never figured out for sure which it is,but here is a picture, I now have the bed (on a '30 pickup) off to do body work and paint so if you want to see a better picture I can snap a couple tomorrow.

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Vergil
 
Vergil
The 37 thru 40 rear axles were pretty much all the same. If you ever get a chance to take some more pictures it would be great. I look at every set up like this as close as I can. I can tell you put a lot of work into that one with the open drive and all plus the required components to restore the loss of the torque tube. I was wondering how well the model A spring worked with those axles in the rear location. I've got one of those type axles that is a 37 or 38 I believe then I have a 41 that has the siamese shackle bolt bores. I figured either one or the other would work with a model A spring. Thanks for that one.

Kerby
 
Thanks guys!!
Lee- I'm familiar with the Speedway part. I'd rather have something a little more substantial looking. Also, that appears that it might be for wider rear ends.
Vergil- Take all the pictures you can. I have some spare sections of frame that might make your approach very practical. Actually, it might be necessary to do a "reverse Z" on the frame to make up for the lower spring attachment point on the rear.
Kerby- Is there a web site for Specialty Ford Parts? I'm pretty sure that that's the one they use in the Bishop - Tardel book. Tim Ayers has a similar part and I think that his is welded to the forging portion of the axle housing. I forget who he said the supplier of the part is.
Figuring this all out is fun!
 
P/U a little less fussy but you need to remember on a Coupe/roadster ensuring the centerline of the wheel/tire sits in the wheel well is crucial to the overall look. Too far forward or aft looks like something is wrong or it was Ford's early attempts at an altered wheel based vehicle.

Good luck.

My hangers were purchased from PSI in Rosemede, CA.
 
Pete, this site: http://www.motormayhem.net/mode-a-ford-refrence-sheet/body-specifications/ has the dimensional drawings from the Salesmans book...might be useful in figuring out where your crossmember will end up. I think it would end up still within the basic dimensional area roughly corresponding to where the rumbleseat cushion would live. If you boxed up only the necessary floor area, you might well have a better trunk space than the original X member bulge allowed.
 
Chris here and on the hamb cut off the top of the model a flange spring perch part and just welded it onto the back side of the later Ford axle flange where the backing plates bolt to the flange. I thought it was a great idea, and period correct seeming.

Chris? You have pictures?
 
PeteVS said:
Thanks guys!!
************
Vergil- Take all the pictures you can. I have some spare sections of frame that might make your approach very practical. Actually, it might be necessary to do a "reverse Z" on the frame to make up for the lower spring attachment point on the rear
***********
Figuring this all out is fun!
Click to expand...

Pete here are a few more pictures I took today. The extension tubing is 2"x4"x1/4" the tubing slides inside the frame rails tight against the top, then the frame was boxed up against and around the extension. Threw a couple of pictures in to show how the gas tank fits into the bed.

Vergil

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I brought the shackle eyes in around 5/8" and the same on the spring eyes, didn't want them to close to the tire sidewall

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The shock mounts are wide so the rear can be tweaked to center the tires in the fender openings and shim the shocks as needed.

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Elrod said:
Chris here and on the hamb cut off the top of the model a flange spring perch part and just welded it onto the back side of the later Ford axle flange where the backing plates bolt to the flange. I thought it was a great idea, and period correct seeming.

Chris? You have pictures?
Click to expand...



Thanks Elrod, Heres the pics from what I did. Easy and using genuine Ford parts...I found some A tubes that were junk but the hangers good.



IMG_5410.jpg

IMG_5411.jpg

IMG_5413.jpg
 
Thanks all of you fine folks! Vergil- I see about your concern about the tire sidewalls. I think that the Pete and Jakes parts look the most interesting. I'm wondering if something similar could be made up to weld onto the forged end of the axle housing instead of the tube. Hmmmm...

PS: Chris- I was typing while you posted. That looks really great. I'd just have to find some A axle housings with good hangers. Mine all have great bearing surfaces, but the hangers are kind of trashed.

PPS: Strick- took your advice and posted on the HAMB. Got zero replies.
 
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