"A"s and aircraft

Jim Huseby

Senior Member
Today I noticed a couple barners citing aircraft experience and wondered if anyone has some interesting stories (all airplane and Model "A" stories are interesting) and experiences with "A"- powered Pietenpols or other "A"-powered craft. Or did this subject already get dealt with a few weeks ago?
 
There are a lot of guys and gals out there with Pietenpol experience although probably not many who also frequent Fordbarn . It would be very interesting to see other responses.

We - my wife is always the co-owner - have owned three Pietenpol's over the years. The Model A version is by far my favorite. One, the Model A powered airplane with "clear" wings, was owned twice by our partnership, it being our daughter's favorite airplane. It has been recently offered "back' to us and has been a serious temptation that I have resisted so far. We do have room for it in our backyard hanger. Other examples have been built with a variety of powerplant, one favorite of the homebuilders has been a converted Corvair engine.

The airplanes are built using aircraft grade Sitka spruce and birch and/or mahogany plywood. Originally, the fabric covering of choice was cotton which has been replaced now by very light weight Dacron fabric. The finish first was nitrate "dope" and now is usually one of many brands of either butyrate dope or some other synthetic liquid. I prefer a process sold as 'Stits" which uses dacron and liquids called Poly-Dope. If you Google "Pietenpol", you will find sites that do a much better job of describing the history of Bernard Pietenpol and his airplanes.

Here is a link (that you may have to cut and paste to get to work) showing pages of Pietenpol pictures.

http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&as_qdr=all&q=%22pietenpol+air+camper%22&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=Skp8TNSKD4S0lQfEhrzuCw&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CDIQsAQwAw&biw=852&bih=399

When I have flown the Model A engine low and slow across a rural countryside it has been a marvelous mental experience that I will treasure forever. You can join me by watching this video. The airplane is my daughter's favorite. The pilot is our friend Marty Whitmore and the soloist singing in the background is her daughter. Enjoy! Gar Williams

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZ8RS3FuVoA


 

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Gar that was fun. In the closing segments of the video, it speaks about the first day of summer when you fell from the sky. Did something tragic happen? BTW, Neat craft!!

Also, if I were in the mood to own one of these, what is the going rate I would need to dig down deep for? Feel free to PM me if those numbers are 'hush-hush' talk.
 
It is hard for me to tell since I have never flown a Pietenpol with the Model A that did not have the carb heater arrangement as shown. The pilot has the exhaust pipes directly in his view and I have never seen the sign of a black or "rich" exhaust.

As an aside, the B carb works the best in the conversion since it has the float pivot 90 degrees to the Model A Zenith and the line of flight. As a result, the float varies less with flight position and loads. Gar Williams
 
It is hard for me to tell since I have never flown a Pietenpol with the Model A that did not have the carb heater arrangement as shown. The pilot has the exhaust pipes directly in his view and I have never seen the sign of a black or "rich" exhaust.

As an aside, the B carb works the best in the conversion since it has the float pivot 90 degrees to the Model A Zenith and the line of flight. As a result, the float varies less with flight position and loads. Gar Williams

Thanks for the insight Gar. I have been fiddling with the idea of building my own, as I have my toes in both hobbies. I am the president of E.A.A. chapter 1315.
 
Brent:

I don't know what the "falling" is refering to.

No problem. You should be able to find a good Model A powered airplane for well under $15 K. The one I would love to buy back, as pictured in the link to You tube is advertised for $10.5 K although it does need recovering.

I think you would have a great time building one in your shop. The plans are available online for a very reasonable price and you certainly have the equipment and expertise to build a copy. Learn to fly in something else and then go have a hoot!

Here is a link to the ads on "Barnstormers" for Pietenpols. Type in Pietenpol for the search.

Gar Williams


http://www.barnstormers.com/cat.php?mode=search
 
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The engine conversion to be used in a Pietenpol almost always includes a magneto. The plans for the airplane includes directions for converting the engine for use in the airplane. Those plans detail how to make the mountings and fittings to drive a four cylinder mag directly off of the crankshaft.
In the example I pictured of "my daughter's favorite", the current owner installed a second Slick magneto which is driven by the cam gear and mounted on what was the right side of the engine when installed in the car. The Henry built industrial engine frequently had a governor mounted on a special right side timing gear cover casting. The Slick mag now occupies the same location, but uses an aluminum casting available for an enthusiast in Kansas City.
If you look carefully, you can see that there are two plugs per cylinder. Alex had special fittings made to accept two 14mm plugs.
I am sorry that I do not have any pictures of the installations. Gar Williams
 
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That was very excellent Gar...both your introduction AND the video!

I've always wanted to fly in a WW1 airplane, mostly it's the sound of the engines which gives me goosebumps. The homebuilt pietenpol seems to capture that same charm.
Interestingly the Model A motor emits a great "old airplane purr" yet with the unmistakable Model A puckit-a-puckit-a-puckit-a ringing through.

Neat stuff and it's easy to see you have fun.:)
 
So what happens if a "touring" Model A engine is built and installed in one.

("Touring" in this case would be one with a new Stipe camshaft, 1.750 intake valves, high-compression head, etc. Lets just say in the 60 horse range!)
 
Brent: More horsepower = more fun!

The original engine, at something less than forty horsepower for takeoff, becomes marginal in hot weather with a full load including gas and two passengers. Any additional horsepower translates into better takeoff and climb performance.

With a propeller, one cannot "shift gears" to get more power. Generalizing, most of the propellers are pitched to allow something around 2000 rpm for takeoff. The builder could select less pitch when picking a propeller but that in turn limits the maximum flight speed by allowing the engine to turn faster than it should.

All of the Model A Pietenpols that I have seen use a higher compression head of some sort. Of course, that translates into more horsepower. Generally, the builders have limited the compression ratio to 6:1, in line with what most Model A owners feel is "safe". Most of the H-C heads I have seen have been aluminum, which is wise because weight must be considered when building an airplane.

Your idea of using a "touring" engine is perfect. Add a Thomas 'two plugs per cylinder' aluminum head, two mags, and you would have an engine that would be ideal. Gar Williams
 
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Thanks Gar. This could really be dangerous for me!

BTW, I have an original aluminum dual-plug FUNK head designed to be used on an A/B engine in the inverted position.

.
 
The Funk engine was "highly" converted with many aluminum castings used to make the engine into a successful aircraft engine. The installation inverted the engine in order to give the pilot more visibility over the cowl. Hopefully, someone that frequents Fordbarn either has a Funk engine or knows of one. It would be great to see pictures of what the Funk Brothers did to make the Ford fly. I would assume, but don't know, that the engine was converted to a pressurized oil system.

For those of you like Brent that have the itch to join the "I fly an A" fraternity try this link. It points to the Bernard Pietenpol web sit where you can order full scale plans or the Flying and Glider Manual of the early thirties that featured the Aircamper. The manual is great for any Model Aer's library. It is cheap and you could build either a full scale or a model from the manual's pages.

http://www.pressenter.com/~apietenp/Product.html

There also is a web site for the Pietenpol Club.

http://pietenpols.tripod.com/

For those guys and gals that are also modelers, there is a very cool model available.

http://www.amazon.com/Wingspan-Pietenpol-Airplane-Suitable-Dumas/dp/B0006O4WK4?tag=atomicindus08-20

As it is with Vtwinsideways I would guess that some of the Fordbarners are also members of the Experimental Aircraft Association and involved with a local chapter. As we advise new Model Aer's to join a chapter, if one is serious about building a Pietenpol, a good first step would be to join a local EAA chapter. You very well may find that one or more of the Piet's is under construction nearer to you that you would imagine. A great plus of doing that is that you very well may be able to recruit someone into the Model A hobby. Gar Williams
 
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