A question for guys who understand auto electrics UPDATE

Yeah, I know. I think I was spooked by it being 12v. :eek:




I know, stuff happens. 12v is only twice as many as 6v. Sometimes we forget to state the easy stuff figuring it has already been done. As long as it gets fixed and you did it yourself is what matters.
 
Battery load testers are fairly cheep @ Harbor Freight.
Remember, batteries do some ODD failures, many can't be EXPLAINED!! Sometimes they're like a CORPSE, they look GOOD, but can't be brought back to life.
Bill W.
 
Re: A question for guys who understand auto electrics

OK. Thanks everybody. We'll run some tests today and put a charger on it. But just to confirm I understand: a truly dead battery can not be charged with the alternator, nor will it take a charge from a charger. Is that correct?

Very low or zero volts? An Alt will not charge a flat dead battery.

AlternatorBox.jpg
 
OK, time to clear up just one more misconception/ misinterpretation: "An alternator will not charge a flat dead battery." This divides into two points of question. 1) Will the alternator start without an attached voltage source? and 2) Will the alternator deliver amperage to a battery that reads zero volts?

1) Will the alternator start without an attached voltage source? There are two general types of alternators used in Model A's. The "one wire" and "three wire".

First, the one wire alternator starts solely from residual magnetism in the rotor shaft. As long as you have some load connected, even a dead battery, it will start and attempt to self-regulate to its internal voltage regulator setting. The amperage output and time while connected to a dead or completely discharged battery will likely cause it to exceed its duty cycle. Much like an arc welder, a high load causes heat buildup and if there is insufficient cool-down damage will occur. Unlike welders, alternators never advertize their duty cycles at various output levels.

Most three wire alternators generally start with external (battery) energization of the rotor coil. That's why you do not have to 'rev' them to get them started. With a dead battery they will not start at idle, however most of the 10/12SI types WILL start without battery voltage if sufficiently revved. The residual magnetism in the rotor shaft does it, just like in a one-wire config. Some of the newer alternator types with AC regulators (no diode 'trio' inside) will start, others will not. Again, duty cycle. Running it against a dead battery may present a load for a time period that exceeds the alternators duty cycle. Poof!

2) Will the alternator deliver amperage to a battery that reads zero volts? Short answer yes. The alternator only 'sees' the battery as a variable resistive load and Ohm's law dictates the amperage. Again, the max load/duty cycle of the alternator may be exceeded resulting in alternator failure.

Summing up, the correct statement should be: "An alternator should never be used to charge a flat dead battery". Unless, of course, you keep a lot of replacement electric smoke on hand and have the correct connector lug to re-install the smoke.
 
I'll give an example of the duty cycle Mike just mentioned. It doesn't pay to hire people who are lazy and refuse to learn. At the junk yard we had two large front end loaders, and the driver's were too lazy to check them for fuel, so they often ran them dry. Then they'd pour in some diesel and crank on them until the batteries were almost dead. Then they'd grab a pair of jumper cables and crank some more. After using some starting fluid they'd finally start and the alternator would have to try to recharge two large 12 volt batteries.

The guy at the alternator shop would install a new 24 volt regulator and say "tell those morons that the alternator wasn't made to be a battery charger. It's made to maintain the electrical of the loader". The drivers never learned, so about once a month I had to visit the alternator shop.
 
I would have taken the driver and showed/had him bleed the system. The smell of the fuel on him and the time spent should fix that problem. If it didn't and he ran one empty again he would be looking for another job.
 
Patrick, you were going to "bleed" the driver's system? I didn't know they did that anymore. I would worry about draining his tank empty.....
:eek:
 
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