67 Mustang help

elwood

elwood

Well-known member
hey guys,
I have a customer with a 67 mustang, it has a rusted dash and the inner cowl needs replaced.
so I need to pull the dash for repairs and replace the inner cowl,
looks to me like iv gotta pull the complete front end and the windshield to get to it all.
can anyone give me some advice ?
Im looking for the best way to do this and a estimated time frame I can give the customer.
thanks
 
If you want to do it right the front clip needs to come off. There are a gazillion spot welds that hold the cowl assembly together, the upper portion comes off first, most of the offending/rusted out vent panel spot welds go with the upper portion....or given the dash is coming out you could repair from under. Trim out the offending part, spot weld the new part from the under side and seal very well. Unless you have gorilla sized hands you can get in from the top to seal. If it were me....the front clip and a gazillion spot welds.......
 
hey blue blood, I like how you have a ford drive train in a your 36 Chevy, hah.
I think the fresh air vent on the top of the cowl has had the drain vents clogged for so long, that the bottom of it has rusted out.
the guy has a new bottom cowl, so Im thinking I need to pull the front clip and windshield to get the dash and complete cowl out.
does that sound correct to you ?
how long do you think it would take you to complete this job ?
 
i had the same problem with a 66 i removed the sheild and frt clip cut along the ledge where the sheild molding would sit or you could cut along pinchweld with an air hacksaw it has a thin blade for easy rewelding then cut along the grilles along the flatside on top leaving yourself room to work along the firewall and the side under the fender to expose the vent intake area and your rust i found plastic repair tubes on e pay but you could trim to the replacement panel get yourself some 3m panel bond adhesive and seamsealer remove the heater and vent assys. and fit and finish i sprayed undercoat over the repair and a little color over that water test and weld your cutout pieces back depending on your paint your looking at 3-4 days you will find the drains blocked and the tubes rotted you won't need the whole panel and if you do i would just do a front clip goodluck
 
thanks frank, that helps.
so you didnt pull the windshield ?
i need to pull the dash for rust repairs also.
 
the customer has already pulled the pad off, and yes it looks like the dash is spot welded in.
the right side of the dash has some bad rust and needs to be removed for repair.
this is gonna be fun.
 
thanks, im not scared of the work, just not sure what to price the job at.
dont want to scare the guy off but dont want to shoot myself in the foot.
 
I have also done a few of these without removing the upper cowl. We would do all the repair from the bottom and side.
The cars usually rot out in the side of the cowl also. This is also a good place to use as an access for welding in front of the vent opening. There is not much room or visibility to do this from the underside.
This is not for the week. If you do quote it and have not done it before, quote HIGH.
All that water had to go somewhere also, what do the floors and toque boxes look like?
 
I did one on a 66 Mustang 2 summers ago for a friend . We removed the entire front end , removed the windshield and dash to get to the cowl .
I also pulled the carpet up and found that the floors were starting to rust along with the inside of the rockers and looked under the car and found it started to rust on the torque box too .
I had a lot of time and days into that car . Wasn't really bad but it's very time consuming .
When you tell the customer all the work that has to be done to get to the area to be repaired , make sure you let them know so when you tell them the price they won't have a heart attack . So don't thing $300 or $400 is high either . There will be many hours of labor in that job so price it very well . You also have to figure in the new windshield gasket and the rusted bolts you will need to replace as well . Also use some good sealer on the joints on the sheet metal after welding . I would use something besides primmer too .
Remember to check all the areas in and around there for the hidden rust . You might want to tell the customer there could very well be more hidden rust exposed when pulling everything apart so the price can go up quite a bit . Have the customer come by so you can show him all the things that will need to be repaired . That way they know what's being done for their hard earned money they are giving to you . Taking pictures is good as well if they are keeping an album or something like that . It also gives you pieces to show future customs of the work you do . That's what I have done and has gotten me extra work that way .
I would rather loose a job than loose money doing the job the right way for nothing .
Good Luck !

Jim
 
thanks Jim, I knew this wasn't goanna be a fast repair.
I told him the front clip, dash and windshield had to be removed.
the customer is thinking about it.
I haven't given him a price, where would your price start for this job ?
 
you are going to remove thie interior and the front clip i would figure 1 dAY or so for that then inst. cluster vent on left side drain radatior and remove heater box and steering if your removing entire dash thats 2 days sheild along with the understanding that it may break being it's age and do'nt try to save the gasket cut it from the inside now do a cleanup and acess the damage floors l/r kick panel area side panel of door jamb near top of cowl also along firewall all which tend to be rotted at this point cut the cowl as you see fit and acess the damage there as well figure your parts ie: patch panels cowl repair kits panel bonding seam sealer and other materials as needed for job and firgue your hourly rate or give a flatout price but estimate for the unexpected tacke pictures of the damaged areas and keep the customer informed any questions and show the customer whats involved with doing the job it is not fun and very time consumeing as drying times are involved i would figure about 2 / 3 weeks total work time the car i had done came to me in boxex as it was used as fill in work in a body shop and was "done " when i got it good luck any questions feel free to contact me 2 heads are better then 1
 
elwood said:
thanks Jim, I knew this wasn't goanna be a fast repair.
I told him the front clip, dash and windshield had to be removed.
the customer is thinking about it.
I haven't given him a price, where would your price start for this job ?
Click to expand...

OK I sit down and figure out all the parts and supply's I know I will have to replace or use . Then I figure out how long it will take to R&R the windshield , R&R the dash , R&R the complete front end . Then try to guess how long it's going to take to remove the old rusted parts and material that will need replaced and weld them back in place . Then repaint and seal it up good . Also figure in your welding time which costs more to do along with the cost of 25/75 gas your welder will use and about how much welding wire you will also use . Those two things I figure into the labor price of welding . I usually ad a 1/2 hour on the welding labor costs for those items .
Now also tell your customer that when the car is open you want him to stop by so you can show him all the rusted material that needs replaces and welded it . You will more than likely find other rusted materials that will need replaced to so that is extra money for you .
On a job like that with mostly labor costs involved add a good hour to 1.5 hours of labor to cover the stuff you will run into that will take more time to do . That will also help to cover the small items you will use like nuts , bolts , washers , wire connectors if they need replaced and so on .
Now when you explain what you need to do to the car to get to the point of where the damage is , take your time and tell the customer and show him every part you must remove to get to the bad part . That way the customer understands all the parts you need to remove to get the job done the right way . That way they understand why it costs so much because of all the parts you have to remove !

That is the things I do to figure up a fair price to get the job done where you make enough money for all your time and a good valve for the customer .

It would be very helpfull to you if you would have a body & parts book for labor time . they usually give a good estimate on the time for the labor costs . That way you can actually show the customer if they complain about the labor costs what the Ford Motor Company manual gives you on how much labor is involved .

Just remember this one thing , no matter what the price is you give the customer , if the ***** and complain , stand by the price you gave them . If they complain and say they will take it someplace else then let it go . I know the jobs are great because we all need the money but when you start lowering your prices you will end up working for nothing in the end ! Always stand by the price and your qualty work ! Also just be fair with the customer too .

Hope this helps you some .

Jim
 
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As Jim said, if you want to work for nothing, go for it. In my business, we work to make a decent profit, cuz I don't need to practice any more - done it before. Tell your customer that your business is not a non proft organization, and if he walks, it's probably the best thing thats happened to you that day.
 
I am not sure what you charge per hour and if you are paying for a garage to work in or have one on your property like I do .
Most will charge from $40 to 75 per hour around here ! By the time you tear that car apart , repair it , seal the seams and prime everything , then reassembly everything you are going to have a lot of hours onto that job . Really unless the owner is restoring that car , he isn't going to pay to have it fixed unless he has money to burn .
It will take a day or 2 days to pull the entire front end and some more parts if everything goes right . The windshield you have to really take your time to have removed . Break it and you bought it .
Then taking the dash out is always lots of fun . You will need a weld cutting drill bit to cut the welds loose . Then you said you have to repair the dash because it's rusted . That also means the inside of the firewall area is rusted also .
By the time you get everything taken out and put back together you are going to have at least 120+ hours into labor easily . Then you have to figure the time to cut the bad spots out and weld in the new pieces . Before it's all said and done that bill will be in the $2500+ range easily ! If you have 2 people working on it which you will sometimes , that means the labor costs are times 2 now many times .
It's your job and i really hope you can get it , but don't work for nothing . That's an awful lot of work and I will guarantee you there will be more rust hidden when you pull that car apart .
When I do a job that's large , I always have up front money to cover the labor to pull everything apart . That covers me just in case the owner says , The hell with this car and doesn't want to get it fixed because they don't want to spend the money to fix it !
Just my opinion !

Jim
 
yea trust me, i dont work for nothing, id rather he walk away, iv got more work to do.
i appreaciate the advice guys,
thats why i ask here,
 
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