54 Crestline disc brakes, again

[KULTULZ]

Yes the tech at Wilwood recommended the MC. Since I had changed complete rear ends, drum to drum, he also asked about the rear wheel cylinders. Since the rear came from a power brake vehicle he suggested I replace the wheel cylinders with a smaller diameter which I had already done since the rear went in a few months before the front disc conversion.

Was it you that described the changeover in another post? The guys at WILWOOD understand brake balance/bias. My memory is fading fast.

An interesting solution. Prestige Thunderbird has installed a Midland fender mount vacuum booster on many Birds with disc brake conversions for use only on the front wheels. I have talked to 3 owners who are very satisfied with the result.

That is the way I would add power assist if concerned about originality/appearance.

I don’t who “she” is but our 56 Victoria stops with a little less pressure than the stock 4 drums using the Wilwood front 4 piston calipers and the new F-150 wider 11” drums.

What kind of swap did you do with the rear?

 

[emf]

The only thing that concerns me re:firewall mounted booster is if there is enough room. I will ask the questions. Any way to get a photo of the fender mounted booster?


Frank

 

[miker98038]

Click the link for Prestige Thunderbird

http://prestigethunderbird.com/catalog/

Scroll down and click “download catalog”

On my browser the disc brake kit is page 5. The power booster is about page 8.

I bought my front disc kit 25 years ago, from an outfit that “retired”. But it was essentially the same. I used Pestige because I know they are currently well spoken of. Everyone and their brother will sell you something.

Stock spindles, the small spacer does move the wheel out about 1/8”. Not a problem on a bird. Then the oem style booster is used only on the line to the front disc. Works fine.

If, as K says, they’re the same spindles, it should work on a 54. The bracket to mount the booster is probably different, and so some of the pre bent lines might need tweaking (not to be confused with twerking). But it’ll give you an idea of what’s included.

Beware of the low bidder. Might be ok, might be parts that aren’t that compatible. The birds and full size cars were pretty much identical (ignoring the backing plates on the Dana rear end). So it’ll be pretty close for balance etc if the 54 is similar to the 55-56.

 

[Fairlane56]

KULTULZ… The rear end is an 8.8 Ford. Not sure on the origins but guessing an Explorer. Narrowed to stock 56 width by J&S in Huntington Beach. I wanted drum brakes and he had a set of F150’s. Still 11” so e-brake line would work. They are 2-1/4” wide shoes which is 1/2” wider than stock. The gears are 2.74’s which I wanted since I swapped in a 62 Cruise-O-Matic behind the 292 Y-block.

 

[KULTULZ]

THANX! Fairlane56!

 

[KULTULZ]

The only thing that concerns me re:firewall mounted booster is if there is enough room. I will ask the questions. Any way to get a photo of the fender mounted booster?


Frank

Here 'ya go, It is shown on a 56 FORD but the appearance will be the same.

You will see the MC mounted directly on the firewall rather than having the booster/MC there.

 

[emf]

I spoke to Wilwood this afternoon and they assured me that the 55-56 Ford kit will indeed fit the 54 Ford Sunliner. The only hang-up is they don't sell power booster kits. I found a Leed kit intended for the 57-62 Yblock cars (PN:FC0032HK) Which included a 7" Dual Diaphragm power booster and a 1 in. dual bowl master cylinder including an adjustable combo valve block with a brake pressure switch. This mounts on the firewall and should be the one, RIGHT?


Frank

 

[KULTULZ]

Well ...

You have decided on a firewall mounted booster?

Make sure it fits a 54-56 as cataloging calls out 57/62.

I personally do not care for the ADJUSTABLE PROPORTIONING VALVE they show.

When the smoke clears, you are going to need an ADJ PPV, a FRONT METERING VALVE and a RESIDUAL PRESSURE VALVE hopefully included in the rear drum outlet of the MC. If not included, you will need to plumb in an external RPV #10PSI.

 

[miker98038]

This is a question, probably more for K. IF Wilwood sells a kit, they should have a master cylinder (or recommendation) as well as the required residual, adj proportioning, and possibly the front metering valve. All to work with the braking system as they provide it.

Wouldn’t it be safer and easier to go with their recommendation on the whole hydraulic side, and then just buy the booster for the firewall with bracket etc. you’ll have to verify the master cyl mounting pattern (most seem to be a standard 2 bolt) and the clearance between the booster rod and the m/c, as well as the pedal hookup rod.

The reason I ask is I’ve been fighting an mis matched system on a buddy’s car for months.
Makes me more demanding of properly thought out systems, than ones that just bolt together out of whatever is handy.

 

[Fairlane56]

Wilwood has 2 MCs for their 4 piston front brake kit….they just don’t offer vacuum can assist. For the last 5 years I’ve had their kit on our 56 and so far not felt the need for a vacuum assist. I’m sure any MC will work but the MC IS close to the exhaust manifold and I use heat deflectors on the Wilwood MC I use and additional deflector for their adjustable prop valve I too use a residual pressure valve to the rear. If I do add assist it will be a Midland on the inner fender panel and defiantly be correct for the era..

 

[KULTULZ]

Wilwood has 2 MCs for their 4 piston front brake kit….they just don’t offer vacuum can assist. For the last 5 years I’ve had their kit on our 56 and so far not felt the need for a vacuum assist. I’m sure any MC will work but the MC IS close to the exhaust manifold and I use heat deflectors on the Wilwood MC I use and additional deflector for their adjustable prop valve I too use a residual pressure valve to the rear. If I do add assist it will be a Midland on the inner fender panel and defiantly be correct for the era..

You're correct, but ...

WILWOOD only offers an aluminum MC and while it's quality is going to be far superior to any CHI-CON cast MC available today (incl big names - RAYBESTOS-CENTRIC) they do not appear as OEM on the install.

The only way in today's parts availability is to find an older FORD take-off and have it gone through. These combo booster kits are off-shore junk sold by not so dedicated vendors. The horror stories are limitless.

IMO ( ) ...

Once upon a time in a GALAXIE FAR FAR AWAY ...

One could go to a salvage yard and pull what you needed to make a nice brake upgrade or you could actually buy QUALITY NEW PARTS. Much like my sex life, those days are over.

What we are trying to do here is duplicate/modify the 1965/1967 FORD KELSEY-HAYES 4-piston design braking system.

I also agree withe manual brake setup unless going to the remote booster ($$$).

Lets wait on what the OP says he wants to do.

KULTULZ - CDO (correct alphabetical order of OCD).

 

[Dave V]

I recently installed a power booster on my 56 Fairlane and used a booster mounting bracket for a 66-70 Fairlane which raises the booster and MC up about 2 1/2" for better exhaust manifold clearance and also plenty of hood clearance. Found it on Amazon for $96.99

 

[emf]

I called out the later firewall mounted booster, since I am having difficulty finding the correct version. I went to POL's web site and only found a Ford kit to fit 52-72, that is why I thought the above kit would work. I did find boosters with single chamber MC's, but I don't want that. I will call POL today. My first preference is the fender mounted booster, but at upwards of $1200 each, it's out of my range. DaveV: can you point me to the kit you put on your 56?


Of course, there is always the option of going without power assist and then add it later if required. Not sure about this approach...


Frank

 

[Dave V]

Search Amazon for 66-70 Fairlane brake booster mount. I used a dual MC from a 70 Mustang and an 8" dual diaphragm booster. Also a spacer (bullet) needs to be installed between booster and MC. Can be obtained from Speedway, Summit, Wilwwod or any others that sell brake parts

 

[KULTULZ]

I will call POL today ...

Be careful of POL.

 

[KULTULZ]

Of course, there is always the option of going without power assist and then add it later if required.

Not sure about this approach...

Think on it as if the MC has a smaller piston bore (15/16" as opposed to 1" as suggested by WILWOOD), it will increase line pressure to the caliper(s) with just a slight increase of pedal travel. The MC is doing the work.

 

[KULTULZ]

My first preference is the fender mounted booster, but at upwards of $1200 each, it's out of my range.

Understood.

The only way out would be to find a complete take-off (salvage or EvilBay) and have it gone through (of course also using a DUAL RSVR DISC/DRUM MC).

The CORE CHARGE for a reman booster is $250.00 if no core.

 

[emf]

Well, Hershey is coming up and who knows what I'll find. But for now, I think I'm going for the following, based on guidance from all here:


Wilwood Front brake kit
Leed proportioning valve with built in metering valve to rear
Dorman 2 chamber MC (1974 Ford Maverick with 15/16 bore)
No power option at this time.


I'll try to update this thread as I go, but this will be started after I put the car up for the winter... thanks to all


Frank

 

[KULTULZ]

Well, Hershey is coming up and who knows what I'll find. But for now, I think I'm going for the following, based on guidance from all here:

Wilwood Front brake kit

Leed proportioning valve with built in metering valve to rear

What is the PN on the valve you have looked at?

Dorman 2 chamber MC (1974 Ford Maverick with 15/16 bore)

DORMAN is not a quality part. Think RAYBESTOS or CENTRIC (new). Although they are also CHI-COM, they are of a better quality.

No power option at this time.

I'll try to update this thread as I go, but this will be started after I put the car up for the winter... thanks to all

Frank

The below statement is false -

LEED Brakes Brake Proportioning Valves

Add safety your brake system with LEED brake proportioning valves! These brass prop valves are equipped with a safety switch that's designed to sense when your brake system is producing unequal or lower pressure to one or more of the wheels—usually caused by a component failure. Without this valve installed, if a component fails on your vehicle, the brake pedal will drop to the floor as you pump the pedal, with little to no braking. Don't take chances! Order the LEED Brakes brake proportioning valves recommended for fitment on your application.

The COMBINATION VALVE section they are describing is a PRESSURE DIFFERENTIAL VALVE. All it does is if sensing a pressure drop in either front or rear brake circuit is it contains a pintle within it and the pintle moves towards the side which has experienced a pressure drop with a dual reservoir MC. It then triggers a switch on the PDV that will illuminate a dash mounted lamp (if the car has one) that will alert the driver of a brake failure.

The safety function of not losing all braking is in the MC design. The design is to allow you to move the vehicle off to the side of the road safely as you will have reduced braking.

A PDV is not mandatory in a pre-1967 vehicle with a dual reservoir MC retrofit unless you want a warning lamp.

 

[5851a]

Are your drums inadequate for the type of driving you do? I've been to the east and west on drums. Just asking. Try to take scenic routes. I've been in SD with newer vehicle with 4 wd. Those drivers are nuts, monsoon rains and semi's passing me. Nope not for me. Just an observation.