40 Ford Coup back seat question

[hotrodsteve]

Follow up to the 40 Ford rear seat questions....can anybody describe the differences in the back seat area floor pans, between the 5 window coup and the Business Coup? I'm trying to figure out which I have , since I don't have the original seating with this project car.

From your description (package tray, bench (not split back) seat, it sounds like you have a 5 window, not a business (opera)coupe. You should have 1 vertical support to mount your spare tire, business coupes had 2. Go to bradleyfloorpans.com, click on 40 Ford section, he has measurements you can compare to your car.
By the way, pretty sure picture #2 above is not a '40-(look at door handles), but seat is similar.

 

[19Fordy]

I had a 40 deluxe coupe that had a large package tray no back seat or jump seats either, bench front seat that was hindged at the top to access or store behind seat,what did I have?

You had a 1940 Ford 5 window coupe, model 01A-77B. My 40 is the same.
There is also a metal arm on the inside of the seat frame that you tighten to hold the seat cushion in the up position.

 

[Chris in MA]

Chris....OK , me again. The light bulb just went on! The second picture shows the FRONT seat back, correct??? It must be hinged somehow to lift off the front seat mounts and spring up in the air? Can that be ????? That would allow access to the back seat storage area?
Steve

Hi Steve, Sorry - I've been offline for a few days. V8COOPMANS got it!

 

[Kube]

Thanks .....could somebody post a picture of the 5 Window Coup with the package trey set up in the back seat area? A picture that would show how this area under the package trey looks, how it is upholstered around the floor area and on top of the package trey.
Really appreciate the comments so far.
Steve

Steve, Here's a few pictures. They are from both '39 & '40 coupes. SAME configuration...

 

[19Fordy]

"Kube", If you have the opportunity to post photos of what both the hinges that support and allow the 1940 Ford business coupe front seat back to swing upward, please do post them - including the side support swing arm hinge that holds the seat back when in the "up" position. This would include what the back of the bench seat looks like when in the "down" position. I forgot to take those photos years ago and only got this one.
Thanks for all the 40 FORD info. you share., Jim

 

[Kube]

"Kube", If you have the opportunity to post photos of what both the hinges that support and allow the 1940 Ford business coupe front seat back to swing upward, please do post them - including the side support swing arm hinge that holds the seat back when in the "up" position. This would include what the back of the bench seat looks like when in the "down" position. I forgot to take those photos years ago and only got this one.
Thanks for all the 40 FORD info. you share., Jim

Hey Jim, I'll look through my pictures and see if I have what you desire.
The back of the seat (back rest) is unfinished. That is, NO cardboard panel like the one Lebaron-Bonney includes in their kits.
Authentically, if you looked up at the seat cushion (when open) you'd see the cushion springs.
Now, let me go look for photos...

 

[19Fordy]

Thank you Mike. What you say is the way I remember it also. But, if you find photos, that would be a bonus. Jim

 

[white64]

dumb newbie question time.... can a 40 - fordor front seat be made to function as a coupe seat ? (it seems like Ford always found a way to make parts similar yet just a little different to save money...) Can "brackets" be changed to allow the back to flip up or are they truly different designs?

 

[91A-77B]

All Ford Coupes from 1937 to 1948 were "5-window coupes". Ford made 2 versions for 1940 - what they called the Business Coupe (and most of us, up here in Canada, anyway, call the Opera Coupe today), had a split seat back, and 2 jump (Opera) seats in the rear. The other version, which most of us call the Business Coupe, had a package tray behind the seat and no rear seat or seats at all. This version had a solid back rest that was hinged at the top, allowing for storage space directly behind the seat, under the package shelf. There is no access from this space into the trunk. Legend has it that Bootleggers preferred this one, for the hidden storage area (unless the Cops knew about the 2 storage areas).

 

[Fe26]

All Ford Coupes from 1937 to 1948 were "5-window coupes". Ford made 2 versions for 1940 - what they called the Business Coupe (and most of us, up here in Canada, anyway, call the Opera Coupe today), had a split seat back, and 2 jump (Opera) seats in the rear. The other version, which most of us call the Business Coupe, had a package tray behind the seat and no rear seat or seats at all. This version had a solid back rest that was hinged at the top, allowing for storage space directly behind the seat, under the package shelf. There is no access from this space into the trunk. Legend has it that Bootleggers preferred this one, for the hidden storage area (unless the Cops knew about the 2 storage areas).

This is also as we understand it in Oz and NZ. The Business Coupe did not have Opera seats. The Opera Coupe had Opera seats.

 

[TJ]

dumb newbie question time.... can a 40 - fordor front seat be made to function as a coupe seat ? (it seems like Ford always found a way to make parts similar yet just a little different to save money...) Can "brackets" be changed to allow the back to flip up or are they truly different designs?

The fordor seat will not work in the 5 window coupe. The seat has a sold metal back that will not allow access to the area behind the package shelf even if you made the cushion lift up..

 

[nospartsman]

I get the feeling that I am reading a variation of the script from "Who's on first. There is no BACK SEAT in a 1940 coupe, except the two fold down jump seats, depending weather it's Deluxe or Business coupe. When the backrest of the bench seat, that the driver sits on, is folded up the the bottom cushion doesn't disappear, it's still there as shown in the photos.

 

[etedj]

if you read the two descriptions previously, you will see the real truth. 1940, two coups...opera and business, that's it(not to separate the standard and deluxe). they each have a slightly different floor pan at the rear of the passenger compartment, it's the location of the step up. The opera coupe step up is about 6" farther to the rear. Also, the opera has two vertical supports under the rear window, one with the spare tire mounted. The business only has one vertical support under the rear window, with the spare mounted

 

[Kube]

if you read the two descriptions previously, you will see the real truth. 1940, two coups...opera and business, that's it(not to separate the standard and deluxe). they each have a slightly different floor pan at the rear of the passenger compartment, it's the location of the step up. The opera coupe step up is about 6" farther to the rear. Also, the opera has two vertical supports under the rear window, one with the spare tire mounted. The business only has one vertical support under the rear window, with the spare mounted

No such thing as a 1940 Ford opera coupe.

 

[TerryOH]

As above the small rear seats are called opera seats in a "Business Coupe". Yes the Business Coupe has a split back front bench seat so people can get to the rear opera seats. The rear of the bench seat back rest is upholstered in the same material as the front of the backrest.

Below are a couple of photos of the "5 Window Coupe" seat and the hardware used to keep it in the raised position. plus the rear of the seat (just one) backrest

 

[19Fordy]

As "Kube" said: "No such thing as a 1940 Ford opera coupe."

The 1940 DeLuxe Coupe Model 01A-77B came with only a package tray and a bench front seat. There was no type of little fold down seats behind the front seat. A split fold front seat came with only with coupes that had the little fold down side mounted seats. Here's a few photos that may help re package tray etc. The vinyl package tray covering material supplied by LeBaron Bonney in 1988 does not meet OEM standards. My original package tray was covered with cloth when I bought it from original owner in 1963.

 

[deuce_roadster]

I don't understand why this seemed so complicated. Maybe because of all the different names used to describe the coupes.
Lets just call them what Ford did, Ford called them model 67 Business coupes and model 77 5-window coupes. There were 2 versions of each, Standard (A) or Deluxe (B), so 67A or B and 77A or B, look through the 40 Ford Body book and you will see the differences.
67A (standard) and 67B (deluxe) Business coupes had 2 small fold down from the side seats in the back and a split bench front seat.
77A (standard) or 77B (deluxe) 5-window coupes had no back seats, a package tray and a solid back non folding front seat As mentioned, changing one into the other is not trivial if you are trying to do it correctly, due to floor, spare and upholstery tack strip differences.
I took this info directly from the 1940 Ford and Mercury Body Parts List July 1940

 

[19Fordy]

deuce roadster is correct in his "not complicated" assertion. Here are some pictorials from The V-8 Album book that will help clarify. In my Model 77B with the bench seat there are 4 cage nuts in the floor for the seat frame bolts.
In the models with the split front seat, I would think there would be 8 cage nuts - 4 four each separate seat. This would help tell what type of seats and model coupe you have.

Am I correct in this assumption?

 

[glennpm]

Great looking Jim!

 

[deuce_roadster]

Info from the Ford and Mercury 1940 Body Parts List printed July 1940

2 models of Ford coupes 67 Business Coupes and 77 5 window coupes A or B after 67 or 77 denotes A Standard or B Deluxe

Models 67A and 67B had small fold down from the side rear seats, a split front seat and NO package tray.

Models 77A and 77B had no rear seats, a solid front seat backrest and a large package tray.

I believe the word "opera" introduced confusion as in the parts list those fold down seats were called "opera" seats which ONLY appear in the model 67 Business coupes A or B.

So lets just call them what Ford did. 67A or B Buiness coupe, or 77A or B 5-window coupe. That is all there was in the Ford line of coupes for 1940 at least in the US.

As mentioned, switching a model 67 to a 77 or 77 to a 67 involves a few nontrivial changes.

Now I need to go clean my model 67A Cloud Mist Gray Business coupe!

HMMMM while trying to post #37 it disappeared and I thoght it was lost so I posted again,
sorry for the duplicate info.