40 Convertible door bottom structure

[DBF 30]

I just picked up a 40 Ford convertible that was stored in the desert for 40 years. It has all of the normal rust issues, needs floors, rear quarter panels patches ect.. However the convertible body is solid and repairable. It still has about 85% of the original paint on it. It is fairly complete with top irons and even the vacuum cylinders for the top irons.

However somebody cut out the lower inside door structure for both of the doors for about the last 6 inches. The door skins are complete and in pretty good condition, from the outside all looks normal.

I have two requests,

First, can somebody post some good pictures of the inside bottom door structure for a convertible or two door sedan so I can see what the original structure looked like so I can see what I need to fix.

Second, the only place that I have found lower door inner and outer patch panels are with EMS. Has anyone used these replacement panels ? How well did they fit and did they look like the original. What few pictures of the inner structure I have manage to find online don't look any thing like what EMS is showing. Also they only list two widths of panels which they call short door and long door. Coup and Two door. Can anyone confirm that the convertible door and the two door sedan door are the same with ?

Thank you for your help!

 

[Kube]

First, stay away from EMS - total poopy.
Second, I'll try to get you some photos ASAP.
Third, the Tudor sedan doors make good donors for the section you need. You'll find the contour is not quite the same as the convertible but it is so close it's easy to make it match.

 

[DBF 30]

Thanks Kube for the info and the pictures you are going to post. Do you know if anybody does make a decent repair panel? I have found some advertised on Mac's but they look like they come from EMS.
If I can get good pictures of what is supposed to be there I can make a stab at fabricating my own as well as keep an eye out for tudor sedan doors.

Can you tell me if the vertical sides of the door structure as seen from the inside are parallel from top to bottom. Since my bottom structure is gone I am sure that the contour is not exactly correct. IE. the door is probably sagging in on itself from the sides. If I can get the bottom spread to the right dimension then the skin which is in pretty good condition except a small vertical crack will hope fully flow to the correct contour. Both doors are the same so I can't check the contour of either as a guide. If I can find a convertible door locally I will try to get a tracing of the correct contour at the bottom of the door on poster board. From that I could make a pattern to use in rebuilding the door bottom structure.

Thanks for the help.

 

[oz40]

Hi DBF30
I too was having the same problem and couldn't get any repair panels or help from anyone,, as its not cost effective for them to produce in limited quantities.
Also I got the impression they couldn't be bothered.
So at the end of the day I made all the lower sections,, I made all my own dies and bucks, to exacting specs from numerous door samples I could get my hands on.
Even here there were slight variances.. But I recon I got them pretty well right on.
The only panel in which I didn't made any real dies up for was the lower inner door jam at the B pillar area.
Here the only thing I did here was to salvage a section of the door jam from a donor car.. Though most if not all are rusted out also,, so what you do is trim the rusted area,, fold the lower edge to suit the lower door inner panel and then re contour the lip edge which takes the door skin folded lip.

I have attached some pics of the hinge panel,,

 

[oz40]

These last pics are of the rear inner door jam and lower door inner panel fab work and install.
Going by what Kube said I would say the convertible door to be near identical to the tudor door lower sections.
I hope that these pics have been of some help to you and Kube.

 

[Dak Rat]

Very impressive work 40oz!

 

[Kube]

DBF30, I do not believe I could add any better photos than what OZ40 has already inserted.
His observations of variances among doors is spot on as well. I could tell you why that is specifically but it would most likely bore you and really doesn't matter nor change the facts
The only thing I note amiss among OZ40's photos is the lack of the diagonal brace on the inner structure. No doubt it is simply not been reinstalled at the time the photos were taken.

 

[oz40]

Hi Kube,
thanks on the reply here,, I hope we have been able to help out here,,, yes,, you are right on,, there is no diagonal brace,, as that too was needing some repairs also, as they are normally torn away at the lower edge, when so much rust is evident..
The small wedge shaped panel at the lower door hinge area I had to make up a die and make new ones also.
At the time of taking the pics neither the brace or the small wedge piece had been installed.. cheers

 

[DBF 30]

oz40 and Kube, Thanks a million for all the info and super pictures. oz40, your work looks fantastic, you showed exactly what I am missing and need to fabricate. The pictures are just what I needed. Its hard to figure out what to build if it is missing to start with.

To be honest I did not even notice that the inner door bottoms were missing at first. The doors looked good from the outside and I did buy the car from just seeing pictures. Not the preferred way to do it for sure... but it was a 40 convertible that was mostly complete and had been stored in the desert for the last 40 years. Not a hard decision.

I just accidently stumbled across it online. Its pictures and advertisement was buried inside of the owner's company web site only. The company was in the process of being sold and its assets liquidated due to health issues.

When I called to investigate they initially had forgotten that they even had the car. After a few more questions they then remembered it and that it was stored out in a locked desert lot. The current owner was in the process of liquidating 40 muscle cars. They were not at all into old ford convertibles and were happy to sell it. They viewed it just as an old car that needed a lot of work and priced it accordingly. This made it a car that I could afford to buy and still be able to restore as a driver.

I have looked at 40 convertibles for years and never thought I would be able to get one. I have a couple of Model A's but my knowledge level on a 40 Convertible is near zero. I have a lot to learn and greatly appreciate all the help that everyone at Fordbarn is giving. Thanks!

DBF 30

 

[rotorwrench]

I found myself getting further and further into the metal work, the longer I've stayed in this hobby. I don't have the big tools for shrinking, stretching, and wheeling in curves yet but I've gotten good at making dies and using home made tools to work the metal around them. I shrink & stretch by the hand and heat methods. For single use dies I've even used plywoods of various thickness with good results. I have a 5/8" thick steel plate hammer table to keep stuff straight and a couple of old tree stumps to do curved stuff. I just don't like to throw stuff away unless it is total Swiss cheese and even then it is still good for a pattern sometimes. There are a lot of ways to accomplish tasks like these but some ways are easier than others depending on what you have to work with. I've make a few useless panels but you get better the more you do it. Metal forming is a good way to get your aggressions out.

I applaud oz40's work and attention to details. It looks like he thinks similar to the way I do about these type of repair tasks.

 

[glennpm]

oz40 excellent work!

 

[Kube]

Hey DBF30, When Rotorwrench gives you a compliment, take it to the bank! The man knows his stuff and coming from him, and I agree, so do you!

 

[fotfod]

the tudor door bottom will probably fit as they are same length but are quite different. on convert where bottom meets door panel face. it is higher and has embossing for strength. they were produced about 15 yrs ago but were a terrible fit
i have made about 4 sets that were accurate and fit perfect about 15 yrs ago. the convbrace is wider and not even close. the repo tudor bottoms that i have seen dont look very go

 

[oz40]

oz40 excellent work!

Thankyou

 

[oz40]

I found myself getting further and further into the metal work, the longer I've stayed in this hobby. I don't have the big tools for shrinking, stretching, and wheeling in curves yet but I've gotten good at making dies and using home made tools to work the metal around them. I shrink & stretch by the hand and heat methods. For single use dies I've even used plywoods of various thickness with good results. I have a 5/8" thick steel plate hammer table to keep stuff straight and a couple of old tree stumps to do curved stuff. I just don't like to throw stuff away unless it is total Swiss cheese and even then it is still good for a pattern sometimes. There are a lot of ways to accomplish tasks like these but some ways are easier than others depending on what you have to work with. I've make a few useless panels but you get better the more you do it. Metal forming is a good way to get your aggressions out.

I applaud oz40's work and attention to details. It looks like he thinks similar to the way I do about these type of repair tasks.

Thankyou, rotorwrench, for your kind comments.

 

[rust runner]

just in case, there is a 40 convert being parted out on the Vermont craigslist.

 

[DBF 30]

Good advice on staying away from EMS. Especially after seeing what was there to start with the EMS panel does not look anything like the original. With all of the great pictures oz40 sent, I am planning on fabricating my own. I would hate to cut up a good tudor door just for the bottoms unless I am forced to. I may go though several revisions but I hopefully will get better with practice.

Also thanks Rust Runner for the craigslist info, I will check it out.

Thanks for all the info and great pics.

DBF 30

 

[Kube]

Good advice on staying away from EMS. Especially after seeing what was there to start with the EMS panel does not look anything like the original. With all of the great pictures oz40 sent, I am planning on fabricating my own. I would hate to cut up a good tudor door just for the bottoms unless I am forced to. I may go though several revisions but I hopefully will get better with practice.

Also thanks Rust Runner for the craigslist info, I will check it out.

Thanks for all the info and great pics.

DBF 30

Tudor sedan doors are fairly plentiful and typically quite reasonable. I would not hesitate to make a set of Tudor doors in to donors for a convertible project.