39 pickup doors - It's just a hobby @#^%!

[malpais]

Trial hung the doors today after fixing many cracks, porta-powering out a large dent in the ribs and straightening the hinges. The pass door seemed tight. I started measuring stuff and found the square area opening (from ribs down) measures 1/4" smaller on the pass side than the driver's side. Can't see where this truck has been wrecked - it was taken down to bare metal everywhere.

Is this normal or common? Always heard Henry was pretty darn accurate. Trying to figure out what to do with it.

Always something!

Gordon

 

[Ken Crans]

Gordon, Did you check corner to corner? might be out of square just enough not to make the doors line up.You said something about the hinges? straightening?How are the pins itself? tight? Might have to re adjustthe hinges. May have to use a come along to straighten. Good luck Ken

 

[malpais]

Ken,

I'll check diagonals in the morning. The pins are good.
The gap, tiny as it is, is even front and back, and the bottom of the door is lined up, so can't see them being off much.

Was thinking , after I gave up this evening, I have two intact cabs (wish I'd have checked them before rebuilding this one). I'll see what they measure to know where to start. You mention "ajusting the hinges". How do you do that? Looks like I need to move the lower pin toward the back of the cab - only way i see to do that is to twist the pillar/mount a little. Gotta be an easier way.

Thanks,

Gordon

 

[Seth Swoboda]

Gordon,

If I understand you the gap between the front edge of the door skin and the lower cowl or "A" pillar on the truck are too tight. They rub or contact each other when closed. When I worked over the cab on my 39 I had a lot of door adjustment to do. When I needed to move the hinges forward or rearward in order to adjust door fit front to back I used a large 4-5lb hammer. Make a solid blow or two with the hammer and then check your door gaps. Find a good friend that will help you hang the door for trial fit. You may have to do this several times. You will not hurt the cab or door hinge, they are plenty tough.

Don't get too frustrated, take your time. I also used this method on the Model A you see in my avatar. My door gaps on both vehicles are near perfect. Nothing worse than body gaps and belt lines that don't line up. It just looks ugly. When propely lined up you will get compliments from those with a trained eye. It's worth the time spent making the correct adjustments for fit.

 

[malpais]

Seth,

Bending (moving) something seemed like the only way to adjust the hinges forward and back - thanks for confirming that.

I am concerned that it seems like the whole opening needs to be larger. The gap is tight front AND back of the door. Gotta figure that out before I move the hinge (at this point, just seemed that moving the hinge would make the alignment slightly better).

Wish I had checked BEFORE I had this one taken down to bare metal, repaired warped roof and front corners, etc.,etc. Many hours!

I may post some photos later if I can take some that show anything.

Thanks for your thought and encouragement.

Gordon

 

[Seth Swoboda]

Gordon,

What I can do is take some measurements off my cab for you. I'm at work right now but when I get home this evening around 5, I can post the measurments on here for you.

 

[alchemy]

Were these the doors from this cab? When you welded cracks, had you test fit the doors? I do know that different parts from other sources (bodies) might not fit your body. And welding anything WILL change it's shape.

Since your opening is too tight for the large door, you'll either need to spread the opening or shorten the door. If there is enough clearance inside on the jambs, maybe you just need to grind a bit off the edge of the skin and reweld that edge back on. One little tackweld at a time.

Or maybe try a portopower insde the jamb? Might be enough wiggle room to just push the back half of the cab backwards a little. You probably need a quarter inch max, right?

 

[Lawson Cox]

All good suggestions, however, put the cab back on the frame and bolt it down before doing too much moving and banging. It may be that cab is not sitting level on your dolly. Don't ask me how I know.

 

[Torchie]

All good suggestions, however, put the cab back on the frame and bolt it down before doing too much moving and banging. It may be that cab is not sitting level on your dolly. Don't ask me how I know.

I 2nd Lawson's comment.
Mount it back on the frame it back on the frame and then adjust the doors. You would be suprised how much this stuff moves.
Also corner to corner measurements are good as well.
And The BFH method too.
I am working on a 52 F-6 cab at the moment and having issue with the doors as well so I remember what the guy that taught me body work used to say when I would get obsessive over gaps,ect. "They never fit that close from the factory". And he was old enough to remember working on them when they were new.
Torchie

 

[malpais]

Thanks for all the great suggestions. Learned from them all, and it's good to know others make mistakes too.

I found the problem! I mislead you all by saying couldn't see where this cab had been damaged. I had looked at the door sill beam (or what ever it's called from underneath, and couldn't see where it had been messed with - turns out it wasn't.

Kept measuring though - couldn't believe this thing was off so much. My other cabs were the same as this one's driver's doorway, and consistent side-to-side.

I eventually noticed that some welds didn't look "factory". See picture below.

The front pass corner has been separated from the door sill beam and welded on 1/4 inch too far back. Looks like with a bunch of Dremel/small grinder work, I can loosen the inner braces, door pillar, and outer skin, and move it all forward the 1/4".

I always figure stuff's gonna take me twice and long as I think, and that's about half the time it really takes.

Appreciate you all taking the time to read and answer!

Gordon

 

[malpais]

Thanks for the reply. I'm slowly getting there! Seems hard to measure corner to corner with the round, differently curved corners...........

 

[Seth Swoboda]

Gald you found out the cause of the problem. Thanks for giving us an update. These projects are so much fun and they always take longer than we anticipated. Oh well, what the heck.....if eveything went smoothly it would be boring. LOL!!

 

[malpais]

Finally making progress on these doors. Found that the pass sill and doorway really was 1/4" shorter than the driver's and and the two other cabs I have.

I decided to cut the sill just behind the door post and add 1/4" out of another sill. Seemed work well, but I have a lot of cleanup to do on the weld. The door now fits with 3/16 opening everywhere but the windshield pillar. Will look into that next.

Found the hinges were not holding the doors in position. The lower ones felt loose, so I drilled out the rivets (I know the feeling on the Barn is not to!) and found one of them on each door hit nothing and the rest went into very broken-up inner structures. The pieces I had to cut out will help me properly repair the door skin that always seems to be damaged by these hinges.

I stumbled on a great sight for alignment and door repairs.

http://www.jefflilly.com/fabrication/36-door-fit/

I'm going to use their procedure to fix and strengthen these doors. Lots of work, but maybe then I can move on!

Thanks for all the suggestions in posts and PM's. Ford Barn always helps.

Gordon

 

[Seth Swoboda]

Keep us updated on your progress. Looks like you are doing a fine job. Your posts remind me so much of the work on my 39 pickup cab. These darn trucks got used up pretty well over the years.

 

[malpais]

I was amazed by the way the experts on the web site I mentioned cut things up - was real reluctant to do that. Pretty sweet work on the doors though.

This process reminds me of a welder we promoted at work. We asked him how he likes being a supervisor. He said "it's different - as a welder, if I had a grinder and more rod, never made a mistake".

Gordon

 

[Kevin in MT]

this post made me take a closer look at my 39 cab, my passenger door has 1/8 to 3/16 max gap and the drivers door is 1/4 to 5/16 gap front and back. huge difference and no sign of any major wrecks, could this be the way they were built?

 

[malpais]

Kevin,

All I can say is I have conflicting info. I have 3 cabs and only the one I chose to use is off. The others still have the doors on them and seem very even - about 1/8" to 3/16" all the way around. On the other hand, the web site I mentioned (http://www.jefflilly.com/fabrication/36-door-fit/) talks about how loose tolerances were in the 30's. I don't believe, considering how good the other parts are, the bodies would be sloppy.

My neighbor has about 6 or 7 unrestored '30's trucks. I'm going to look at them just for curiosity.

It surprised me how busted up the hinge areas inside the doors were. Severe cracks and the rivets pulled clear through. You can reach inside, lift on the door and feel if stuff in there is moving.

Gordon

 

[Carbroke]

This is work I'm doing on my '36 cab. Thanks for the Jeff Lilly thread; matches my truck exactly.

I haven't opened up the door side hinge area yet, but my cab was wrecked and the A pillar on the passenger side is completely crushed and twisted, mostly near the upper hinge. Even the dash is tweaked all the way across.

I am transposing all of the left side measurements to the right side in an attempt to get back to start again on the wrecked side. Never thought about all the cowl edges. Oh boy, some fun a'comming!

 

[malpais]

Glad I could help a little. Seems I'm always asking instead of helping. The guys on that site make it look easy.


Gordon