37 gauge polarity

Don

Don

Well-known member
The truck I just got has 12 alt and neg ground,need to get the gauges working with 6 volts regulators,do gauges care if there is neg or pos ground???
 
No, the oil, temp & fuel gauges work by heating an element and the so called senders are a matching type of heating element that provides a variable ground to the gauges. They don't care which way the electrons are flowing. They do care about voltage.
 
What would be amp draw of one gauge ,think the regulator I was looking at was good for 1.4 amps
 
If the 6volt gauges on your truck have already been operating on 12 volts without a voltage reducer in line then they may already be overheated or "cooked". The winding around the bi-metal strip inside the gauge is the item likely to be damaged. The ammeter is a different type of gauge and should not be damaged. Regards, Kevin.
 
Don said:
What would be amp draw of one gauge ,think the regulator I was looking at was good for 1.4 amps
Click to expand...

I really don't know what the amp draw is, but a lot of people have made this conversion, so should be able to provide what they used.

For starters here is one internet source:

"Here are some possible part numbers for ballast resistors for your guages. Look them up and see what will work best for your needs:

-AC Delco part # U1745
This is what it says: "Voltage reducer. Reduces 12 volts to 6 volts. 1.5 ohm resistance for 4 amp maximum load. Permits use of regular 6 volt accessories on 12 volt systems. Mounts through 7/16" diameter hole. Includes clamp on bracket."

-AC Delco part # F610 and F611

-Napa part # VT6187 (Echlin)
This may be the best option. One unit can feed all your separate gauges. Just run a wire from the ignition switch to the unit and another wire from the other side of the unit to one gauge then jump wire to the next gauge and so on.
Remember to mount these ballast resistors where they won't melt any wires or catch anything on fire as they will get warm or hot."

I think you might be a lot better off using an OEM type voltage reducer, the one Ford used after they switched to 12v and kept the 6v gauges.


Believe Ford started using them in 1957. One Ford part number is B7A-10804-B

https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-1966-6...-Cluster-Galaxie-Fairlane-Falcon/322237546730

https://www.carid.com/standard/instrument-cluster-voltage-regulator-mpn-vrc-604.html

http://dennis-carpenter.com/dash-gauge-voltage-reducer/p/D-10800/

Some of the Ford units are listed as vehicle specific, but no idea what the differences would be.

And another approach: https://www.speedwaymotors.com/12-Volt-to-6-Volt-Reducer,2374.html

Off the HAMB:

NAPA Echlin part # VT6187 12v to 6 v reducer.
NAPA Echlin makes several insrument cluster voltage regulators:
Part # IR 1, IR2, IR7, and IR8 all fit 60-77 Fords, Mercs, Lincolns. Difference being connections.

The generic "7806" small integrated circuit voltage reducer works fine for gages. It is an electronic reducer and has about 0.5 amp capacity. This is sufficient for gages, but not for fan or wiper motor. Whole lot cheaper than any resistor type and has stable output. Or go to the junkyard and get one from a 60-70's Ford.
 

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The runtz regulators would be the safest bet for the conversions of the King Seeley systems. They keep the voltage stable no matter what the regulated output of the generator or alternator is plus they don't produce heat like a resistor does. They are ONLY designed for negative ground systems though. Polarity is a one way street with them but most folks use negative ground anyway when they convert from 6 to 12-volt. I know I would anyway.
 
Rotorwrench, do you believe they are better than the original Ford voltage reducers? A Runtz is required for each gauge, with the OEM unit one is all that is required. I have not used either, so just a question! :)
 
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A lot of folks say that the later 12-volt cars have 6-volt gauges but I've never seen any data to back that up. They were designed to keep a steady state voltage all the time so the gauges wouldn't fluctuate. This was also in a time frame that early type King Seeley equipment was being changed to industry standards of the time. The gauge voltage regulators in the late 50s & early 60s work OK but what are they regulated to? Folks have used them with an unknown success rate. The runtz regulates each gauge to its specified voltage without worry of amperage spikes or over volt so they are a safe bet. I understand when folks want to simplify things but my concern is how well will it work for the long haul. This old King Seeley stuff is getting harder to replace all the time.
 
Very interesting link.

Flat Erie:

"It always amuses me how many opinions there are on this topic.

Simplest & cheapest is the 7806 chip - they're cheap, maybe $0.15 each. One for each gauge except your voltmeter. Put a 60 ohm resistor (precision wire wound) in series with it - it's close enough.

The runtz are resistors and aren't as stable as the digital CVRs. The 'factory' 56-9?? Ford item is a chopper and while it will work, also isn't stable. Like many things, there is more than one way to skin a cat and your opinion of what is 'better' is just that...an opinion. It boils down to what you value most...cost, simplicity, accuracy, ease of installation, or???"

Seems like another topic where there are about as many points of view as there are posters!!!!
 
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The runtz is made with a small digital 7806 type integrated circuit VR so I don't know where some of that info comes from. The little ICVRs can only handle so much amperage so that's why only one is used per affected gauge. A person can purchase the small pieces and make there own runtz units or they can make up a circuit board and install as may ICVRs as needed and wire it in with a harness to fit the application. The old IVRs of the 50s & 60s were choppers and that's another reason to be sceptical of them. If you put an old d'arsonval type volt meter on the output you can watch the needle swinging each time the points open. They work a lot like the old King Seeley senders with a heat coil around a bi-metalic switch arm. The 7805 is a constant voltage (5-volt) regulator so the voltage stays the same all the time. There are you-tube videos about fabricating a runtz type regulator but to me, it's easier to just buy the damn things.

A person can also use a 7806 if they want 6-volt or 7808 for 8-volt output but most of those would work better on the 12-volt cars. I'm not sure what Randy Rundle uses on his runtz but it could be either 5 or 6-volt and still work.
 
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Runtz = proven on thousands of 12 conversions, relatively cheap, readily available, easy to install, reliable.
 
I have been converting 6v Ford gauges to 12v systems for many years and have always used the Ford CVR without problems. Other that 1956, Ford used 6v gauges in all applications until 1986 when they went to a 12v magnetic gauge system and and us Ford dealer mechanics were kept busy fixing the new gauges and senders until Ford got their act together. All three gauges (not ammeter) are the same except for sweep direction. I have taken mid to late seventies gauges out of boneyard Torinos, Rancheros, t-birds, and Cougars and installed the in early applications by just matching sweep, replacing the needle and face plate of the early gauge onto the late gauge. I use a CVR for 1959 Fords which is still available from NAPA and several other sources. I use the 1959 CVR because the connections on it accept spade terminals and the later one have snaps that connected to a printed circuit flexible plastic sheet. I have had people tell me about Runtz CVRs and haven't used them myself. I figure that Ford built millions of vehicles from 1957 until 1985 using 6v gauges and a pulsed 6v power supplied by the CVR, they were both depenable and accurate. plus only one factory CVR is necessary. One nice byproduct of the heat driven gauges is that since the operate on heat deflection, they are slow to react when fuel sloshes in the tank or other minor glitches happen as opposed to the "modern" magnetic gauges. The gauges can't cool off and reheat fast enough to be bothered by minor nuances. The pulse action is so rapid that the gauge can't respond and stays stable.
 
Check out the "pulsed" output on the old choppers yourself. It will go all the way up to 10-volts before the points open using a d'arsonval volt meter. They sort of fake the circuit into a level of 8-volts or so. If you check a few of them you will see that they don't all go up to the same voltage so their accuracy is questionable and the output is never constant. When you check a chip type ICVR it will be constant 6-volts on a 7806. The new chopper types are likely made in Mexico or some other off shore place so quality is even more questionable. Chip manufacturers do a pretty good job of quality control and not one of the ones I've checked were off by more than 0.2-volt.


This information likely won't change any other minds but it certainly changed mine. I usually keep my personal antique cars the same voltage they came with but when I convert one for myself or someone else, I use the ICVRs. It only takes three of them and they fit on the gauges OK.
 
rotorwrench said:
Check out the "pulsed" output on the old choppers yourself. It will go all the way up to 10-volts before the points open using a d'arsonval volt meter. They sort of fake the circuit into a level of 8-volts or so. If you check a few of them you will see that they don't all go up to the same voltage so their accuracy is questionable and the output is never constant. When you check a chip type ICVR it will be constant 6-volts on a 7806.
Click to expand...

Good information rotorwrench!
 
If the Ford "chopper" CVRs are so bad, how did we get along so well with them 28 years (57 to 85)? I worked for Ford dealers many of those years and rarely if ever did we have a problem with gauge function or accuracy complaints. Ford made a very good gauge tester that would test wiring, CVR, and gauge sweep. I still have mine and it used to set in my tool box and get dusty most of its active years. one of the dealers had 96 stalls and another had 70 so we weren't little country dealers and had a very busy department but very few gauge repairs. Now, is you want to discuss the crap magnetic gauge Ford used from 1986 up, we had plenty of work fixing them. Interesting you mention D'arsonval. Henry originally had them design the King-Seely gauge but woudn't cheapen it up enough for Henry. Since Henry paid for the research from them, when he withdrew, he took all of the work D'Arsonval did and sent it to King-Seely where they managed to cheapen it up enough for Henry and keep it simple and reliable.
 
The difference on use of chopper IVRs with the early King Seeley instruments is that the older KS type sending units function on a pulse type system on one end already so why add another pulsed system into the mix. The later 12-volt systems changed over to resistance type sending units with the same heater on bimetallic function of the indicators for most of the years that the IVRs were used so there was no major problem with that.

I never mean to imply that one was bad or good. The ICVR is just more efficient and would be the safer bet for longevity of the KS sender and indicator. Use what ever you feel comfortable with.

D'arsenval movement is just a reference to the needle swing type instrument used for many years in volt ohm meters. Most folks use digital stuff now and they don't react fast enough for a person to see what the voltage is actually doing in the circuit.
 
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