33/34 rear bumper attachment

[ceejay]

Hi all,

Have a look at the attached photo.

The rear bumper on the 33 Phaeton I just purchased, has been installed in a rather strange way.

This car has been badly restored and they may have carried out changes so I am looking for how every thing SHOULD be and plan on putting every thing right.

Firstly, the original bumper mounting "bosses" are square and positioned rather high on this car compared to the round bosses I have seen on cars on the web.

Also see how the bumper irons go between the apron and the fenders... this can't be right can it ?
Do those look like the correct bumper irons ? are they fitted up side down ? or have they been bent or something ??

 

[David J]

If you are asking if it is right for a U.S. 33 NO . Actually nothing in the pic is right for a U.S. car . The fender , gas tank cover , bumper stuff , taillight stand and taillight are definately not proper U.S . 33 stuff . Your car looks Aussie to me and the folks down under can tell if it is proper for a Aussie 33 .

 

[Mart]

Here's my 33 coupe rear bumper attachment.

And the rear spreader bar/bumper mount under the rear panel.

Mine's a coupe, but the bumper mount and spreader bar will be similar.

Mart.

 

[DavidG]

David,

From his earlier photos it is evident that the body is of North American manufacture, not Australian. (Check out where the bottom of the rocker panels are relative to the running boards -- there's no gap, unlike on Australian bodies.)

The previous restoration sure did 'rearrange' the rear edges of the gas tank cover, rear fenders along with the contours of where the bumpers mount, and likely unique-to-this-car bumper brackets.

 

[ceejay]

Guys please do educate me about all these things you talk about... I am clueless.

Tell me how you identify the rocker panel and running board gap, and show me how a correct phaeton rear shape.. gas tank cover, fender etc should be and where mine has been done wrong.

Around 20 years ago I had seen this same car which I own now. It was in a deceased collectors yard. The car was missing lots and completely corroded and was buried up to its running boards in the earth !!

So I know when this guy "restored" it, he would have just typed "1933 Ford" on the www and just looked at a few photos and done things the way he thought was right. Specially since there are no other cars here in Sri Lanka he would not have had anything to get the correct data from.

I am VERY keen to learn every thing about my car so that I can put every thing right

 

[David J]

DavidG is right - it is a US body if you look past the obvious customizing . The door hinge - post stuff on aussie cars is way different also . That said Mart gave you the right info as your car should look like his in the rear lower area . The gas tank cover - taillights - shape of the rear fenders on the botom - the bumper stuff - the spreader bar etc is all the same as what should be on your car .

Guys please do educate me about all these things you talk about... I am clueless.

Tell me how you identify the rocker panel and running board gap, and show me how a correct phaeton rear shape.. gas tank cover, fender etc should be and where mine has been done wrong.

Around 20 years ago I had seen this same car which I own now. It was in a deceased collectors yard. The car was missing lots and completely corroded and was buried up to its running boards in the earth !!

So I know when this guy "restored" it, he would have just typed "1933 Ford" on the www and just looked at a few photos and done things the way he thought was right. Specially since there are no other cars here in Sri Lanka he would not have had anything to get the correct data from.

I am VERY keen to learn every thing about my car so that I can put every thing right

 

[ceejay]

Thanks... I did study some photos closely and now I do see what you guys mean about the rear fenders on my car... the rear portion of them are very wrong... the car has been made shorter by changing the rear shape... it should be more flared out together with the gas tank cover.

Does anyone make new fenders, doors and gas tank covers for these cars ?

A company called roadster ute inc. makes complete new bodies. I have just sent a mail to one of their dealers to find out if their bodies are the same shape and size as a stock 33/34 car and if they will sell individual panels.

 

[David J]

The rear fenders are sedan , the gas tank cover , taillights and stands , rear spreader bar fit most body styles . The rear bumper and braces are 33 0nly but again fit most body styles . Yes the fenders are available new but I have no experiance with them . Others here will know about that . FWIW a U.S. bodied 33 phaeton is a VERY DESIRABLE car- good find . Doors are 33-34 but you probably should try and fix whatever is wrong there as those are not easy to find . If wood is the issue Brads woodshop can help with that . GOOD LUCK

Thanks... I did study some photos closely and now I do see what you guys mean about the rear fenders on my car... the rear portion of them are very wrong... the car has been made shorter by changing the rear shape... it should be more flared out together with the gas tank cover.

Does anyone make new fenders, doors and gas tank covers for these cars ?

A company called roadster ute inc. makes complete new bodies. I have just sent a mail to one of their dealers to find out if their bodies are the same shape and size as a stock 33/34 car and if they will sell individual panels.

 

[ceejay]

Thanks David...
When you say the rear fenders are sedan, do you mean the rear fenders on a 33 phaeton were the same as on a 33 sedan ?

I'm attaching some pics I took just now from under my car. It has no spreader bar at all and they have attached the bumper irons to the out side of each chassis rail.

I noticed someone has fitted twin piston lever arm type shock absorbers to it. I think they are from the rear of a Morris Minor.

 

[MaineDeuce]

ceejay,On Australian built cars, only the body is different than US produced bodies, the sill area under the doors and the extensive use of termite food in the floor and doors being the major differences. The dash and all hang on panels (hood, grille, fenders, running boards, gas tank cover, bumpers/irons, and taillights were all supplied from Canada and are exactly the same as US models. So the rear of your Phaeton should look a US model and Marts coupe as pictured above.

 

[DavidG]

It's not an Australian body.

 

[David J]

Yes on the sedan fenders - makes them much easier to find . 34 rears are the same as 33 also . Looks like you may be missing the last little bit of your frame rails - again Marts pics are how your bumper-spreader bar should look . The shocks aren't a huge deal to correct and besides many use later shocks for a better ride . Check out Marts thread on getting his 33 5w on the road . Marts thread also shows LOTS of detail shots of the rear frame area without the gas tank in place . Should be a big help . Folks that like 33-34's are well represented here so don't be afraid to ask .

Thanks David...
When you say the rear fenders are sedan, do you mean the rear fenders on a 33 phaeton were the same as on a 33 sedan ?

I'm attaching some pics I took just now from under my car. It has no spreader bar at all and they have attached the bumper irons to the out side of each chassis rail.

I noticed someone has fitted twin piston lever arm type shock absorbers to it. I think they are from the rear of a Morris Minor.

 

[David J]

Here's some pics of a 33 sedan with the cover off and a 33 frame that is being reclaimed by brush . If you compare the sedan pic with Marts you will see that sedan-phaeton bodies flare out much more than coupe bodies = the fenders are narrower on top on sedans than coupes . The rear bottom area is the same though . The rear frame tips where the spreader bar goes look to be missing ? on yours . None of these problems are a huge deal here - now on Ceylon that may be different . Do you folks still use that name nowdays ? Or did I flunk geography ?

 

[ceejay]

David J thank you so much for the info and photos... Looks I think someone chopped my frame just after the rear shock mount position and from there back is home made... I think.

I will go under there with old clothes on and have a good look tomorrow.... It's 7:40 PM here and I suddenly got the urge to look for the serial numbers on my car so I went down and scratched the layers of old paint and stuff off the engine and frame and got durst and rust and all sorts all over me ... just came and had my 3rd shower

I did find the serial number on the engine. It was on the pad just above the water intake but I expected to find it on the pad near the starter from what I had read on the WWW.

The number on the frame I did not find. I cleaned the whole section of frame rail top.. from radiator to firewall and did not see anything.

Interestingly, on bot sides and on both upper and lower frame rails... the frame has 2 layers of steel... is this normal ?? photos attached... and in the second photo, what is that big hole and 2 slots all about ??

Well... we do still use "Ceylon" but very rarely in new applications... "Ceylon motor sports club", "Classic Car Club of Ceylon", "Bank of Ceylon" etc... but most of those stem back from the age where Sri Lanka was ruled by the Brits and was known as Ceylon.

David can you please give me link to the particular thread of Mart's which you talk about ? I searched his posts but there are so many and I could not find it.

 

[David J]

"Marts 3 month 33 survivor " is the title and I'm clueless on how to put that here . It's worth a look as he went into great detail on getting it road ready . The double rails is normal and the hole should have 3 slotted holes and is for the steering gear . Yes they have both LH & RH provisions .

 

[Mart]

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77133

Click on the link above. Hope it is helpful to you.

Your frame looks to be in good condition, at least in the pics above. The holes shown are for the steering box if it were left hand drive. (as stated above)

Mart.

 

[ceejay]

Thanks Mart !!

Your thread was very interesting indeed !!

Ohh now It makes sense about the steering box and column... you see on my car, someone has fitted long spacer bushes between the steering column drop and where it mounts onto the body.

I was wondering how the steering box could have been tilted down to bring the steering column down like that. I was thinking the worst that may be my scuttle height or dash was wrong but now I see that the steering box mount holes are slotted on the chassis and that's how they would have adjusted the height of the column

 

[FlatheadTed]

Australian full body's originated from Canada and have near enough the same wood in the doors as the US ones ,They came in as knocked downs and the panel s were modify ed with some small stampings supplied locally .I think CJ is looking for a rear section .

ceejay,On Australian built cars, only the body is different than US produced bodies, the sill area under the doors and the extensive use of termite food in the floor and doors being the major differences. The dash and all hang on panels (hood, grille, fenders, running boards, gas tank cover, bumpers/irons, and taillights were all supplied from Canada and are exactly the same as US models. So the rear of your Phaeton should look a US model and Marts coupe as pictured above.

 

[ceejay]

The way things are turning out, sheet metal wise, looks like I will want... 4 doors, rear fenders, gas tank cover, front and rear floor pans and may be even 2 front fenders and running boards.

 

[DavidG]

Ouch! Please explain what the problem is with the doors that you have now.

Thanks.