1930artdeco
Well-known member
Can you even get drums for the AA's?
Mike
Mike
31 AA rescue
- Thread starter trevorsworth
- Start date
Chris Haynes
Well-known member
The juice brakes from 1940-48 trucks will bolt on.
trevorsworth
Member
Externally the drums looked good and the brakes did stop the truck (at being-dragged-with-another-truck speeds) so I'm not too worried about them. Of course they could be slightly warped or what have you but I'm sure they will be good with a good clean up and servicing.
Kinda kicking myself for having given away so much of my Model A stuff over the past couple of years but I went through my stash and came up with some stuff for the truck! Headlight lenses, a good Zenith carb (and a good Tillotson as a backup), a new distributor cap, spark plug leads, spark plugs, a belt, a generator, body blocks, a voltmeter, the interior door handle I'm missing on one side, a window crank, window regulators, and a few other bits and bobs.
I was also able to find a set of tires at a local tire shop for $120, although they are radials and will probably be kinda ugly they will be great for now considering 'correct' tires will run me over two thousand.
If the motor runs and the transmission isn't freeze cracked, I think I can get this truck all the way back together and on the road with less than $1600.
$901 later after tax and shipping - got the body wood ordered as well as window felts and a brake rivet tool. Let's do this!
Kinda kicking myself for having given away so much of my Model A stuff over the past couple of years but I went through my stash and came up with some stuff for the truck! Headlight lenses, a good Zenith carb (and a good Tillotson as a backup), a new distributor cap, spark plug leads, spark plugs, a belt, a generator, body blocks, a voltmeter, the interior door handle I'm missing on one side, a window crank, window regulators, and a few other bits and bobs.
I was also able to find a set of tires at a local tire shop for $120, although they are radials and will probably be kinda ugly they will be great for now considering 'correct' tires will run me over two thousand.
If the motor runs and the transmission isn't freeze cracked, I think I can get this truck all the way back together and on the road with less than $1600.
$901 later after tax and shipping - got the body wood ordered as well as window felts and a brake rivet tool. Let's do this!
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Bill Cilker
Senior Member
After viewing your video, I believe that your truck originally had a 187-A platform bed on it. You have a late 1931 (after April) short wheel base, long frame truck. I have the same truck. The two brackets on the rear cross member are for the spare tire carrier. It also attached to the bed.
1930artdeco
Well-known member
I am soooooooo jealous! I want one just no place for one.
trevorsworth
Member
Thank you, Bill! Someone up in Missouri offered me one of those beds and I wish I could make the trip to grab it. Hopefully I can find one closer to home, but it doesn't look too hard to fabricate something that looks like it. I have access to a bunch of rectangular tubing that I could pie cut at the ends to make correct-looking spars.
Me either! I am still trying to figure out where I'm going to put this thing when it leaves my friend's shop. Little details!
trevorsworth
Member
I have had several Model A bodies up to this point but never reached the point on any of them where I was re-wooding them, let alone upholstering them. The wood is on the way, so I will be at that point with this truck soon.
It looks like Ford just painted the original wood black and figured that was good enough. Maybe that was good enough for the hard, dense old-growth lumber of the day but I am thinking we should treat this wood somehow.
What is the best way to treat the wood? I am assuming next time this truck needs wood it will not be as easy as ordering it off the internet and would like to make sure it lasts as long as possible.
Once we have all the wood in the truck, I will need to install a vinyl top as quickly as possible. It looks like my layers should be:
- top material
- cotton batting
- chicken wire
I am not really clear on how this stuff affixes to the truck. I know that on the trucks, the fabric wraps over the roof sides. There must be some trim piece to cover the edge between the fabric and the cab back and visor, but I'm having trouble finding clear pictures of these assemblies for reference. Can anyone help me out here? Even up close pictures of the trim/edge regions on a finished truck would put me on the right path.
It looks like Ford just painted the original wood black and figured that was good enough. Maybe that was good enough for the hard, dense old-growth lumber of the day but I am thinking we should treat this wood somehow.
What is the best way to treat the wood? I am assuming next time this truck needs wood it will not be as easy as ordering it off the internet and would like to make sure it lasts as long as possible.
Once we have all the wood in the truck, I will need to install a vinyl top as quickly as possible. It looks like my layers should be:
- top material
- cotton batting
- chicken wire
I am not really clear on how this stuff affixes to the truck. I know that on the trucks, the fabric wraps over the roof sides. There must be some trim piece to cover the edge between the fabric and the cab back and visor, but I'm having trouble finding clear pictures of these assemblies for reference. Can anyone help me out here? Even up close pictures of the trim/edge regions on a finished truck would put me on the right path.
No chicken wire on the cab.
Check out this link. http://www.modelahouse.com/tech/puroof/puroof_files/v3_document.htm
Check out this link. http://www.modelahouse.com/tech/puroof/puroof_files/v3_document.htm
trevorsworth
Member
Bob, this is an awesome resource- thank you!!! I would never have found this on my own. I can't find the roof kits in stock anywhere so I guess I will be having to cut my own material for the skin. Lots of good tips and close ups in this slideshow.
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katy
Well-known member
Joe K
Well-known member
Cuprinol will work, but its main constituent is copper napthalate of some form - Green in its usual constituent. Thinks the smell and appearance of your typical summer camp cabin.
Cabots used to have "bleaching oil" which was a mix of refined creosote (creosote we're familiar with is black and used on railroad ties - but triple refined creosote makes a 'clear' substance used in the bleaching oil as vehicle for grey stain.) Homes on the New England south coast typically lasted 70-100 years in full sunlight on white cedar shingles using this product. (Think Newport, RI mansions done in "shingles.")
The EPA has made both of these products "highly modified" - after all their main constituent is effectively a "biocide" - and humanity can't possibly be allowed to dominate the physical world (sorry - not to go political.) Both of these are "not what they used to be."
Today's nearest equivalent to either of these would be something "Tung Oil" based. My choice might be "Waterlox" which is a floor finish visually similar to polyurethane - but a much stronger coating - or diluted used as a fiber strengthener. Clear gloss or available in satin or even "tones." My first coat on pine floors is usually done 50-50 mix with mineral oil.
You don't say if you're going to follow up with "color coat" - which is how Henry produced the vehicles, or if like most your bed wood might be left "natural." If natural, I would do Waterlox and put on about 4 coats after the dilute.
My experience with polyurethane has generally been VERY poor. The coating "ages" in the sun, gets yellow and brittle, and then chips off leaving bare wood underneath. We're currently in a multi-year project to sand all the floors in my wide pine board colonial house and re-finish in Waterlox. Last check about $84 per gallon (!) It takes 2 gallons to do a typical room.
Joe K
Cabots used to have "bleaching oil" which was a mix of refined creosote (creosote we're familiar with is black and used on railroad ties - but triple refined creosote makes a 'clear' substance used in the bleaching oil as vehicle for grey stain.) Homes on the New England south coast typically lasted 70-100 years in full sunlight on white cedar shingles using this product. (Think Newport, RI mansions done in "shingles.")
The EPA has made both of these products "highly modified" - after all their main constituent is effectively a "biocide" - and humanity can't possibly be allowed to dominate the physical world (sorry - not to go political.) Both of these are "not what they used to be."
Today's nearest equivalent to either of these would be something "Tung Oil" based. My choice might be "Waterlox" which is a floor finish visually similar to polyurethane - but a much stronger coating - or diluted used as a fiber strengthener. Clear gloss or available in satin or even "tones." My first coat on pine floors is usually done 50-50 mix with mineral oil.
You don't say if you're going to follow up with "color coat" - which is how Henry produced the vehicles, or if like most your bed wood might be left "natural." If natural, I would do Waterlox and put on about 4 coats after the dilute.
My experience with polyurethane has generally been VERY poor. The coating "ages" in the sun, gets yellow and brittle, and then chips off leaving bare wood underneath. We're currently in a multi-year project to sand all the floors in my wide pine board colonial house and re-finish in Waterlox. Last check about $84 per gallon (!) It takes 2 gallons to do a typical room.
Joe K
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trevorsworth
Member
That Waterlox sounds like the way to go. I don't ever want to do this again on this truck. As for a color coat, I'll probably paint the cab wood black over the sealer before installing it. When it comes time to do the platform I will probably try to get a mahogany or cherry hue on the wood.
I was having trouble finding top kits in stock and was thinking about just buying and cutting my own material, but someone clued me in to Classtique (https://www.classtiqueupholstery.com/). At $210 for everything, even tacks, this is probably the route I'll take.
I was having trouble finding top kits in stock and was thinking about just buying and cutting my own material, but someone clued me in to Classtique (https://www.classtiqueupholstery.com/). At $210 for everything, even tacks, this is probably the route I'll take.
trevorsworth
Member
We were plugging away at it today. It was cold as hell and that hampered our progress badly. Item one was cleaning out the cab... I didn't think to take an after pic of this (cold) but we found some cool stuff under the seat in among the rat poop and hantavirus.
This battery, date coded June 1988, gives us a clue as to the last time it was really rocking and rolling...
At this point the engine was still stuck but had been sitting with ATF in the cylinders for about a week. We had a socket that matched the crank nut but there was no way to get a tool on it with it on the nut. We puzzled over this for a moment, then I realized there was probably a crank handle under the seat... et voila. Now- I've been lucky with 3 random pasture engines so far. Will I score with a fourth? Lo and behold...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42cTqXEH0Bw
At this point we figured we'd better take the shifter top off and see why it no longer wanted to shift. It had reluctantly gone into second gear while I was tinkering with it in Brady, but after that trip now didn't want to.
The old oil had turned to a solid pack of grease in both the transmission and the engine. This stuff was rock solid. About 30 minutes with a heat gun was able to get it to liquefy and start draining; we chased it with some brakleen until it was all outta there.
We got the transmission drained and cleaned out and she shifts good now. Even the detents are nice and strong, I couldn't believe it. This truck is eager to go...
Next step was to put power to it and see what it would do. (The original wiring is all shot so we scabbed some stuff in.) Initially the starter would spin but the bendix wouldn't budge; we pulled it off, cleaned it up and got the bendix to retract and extend like it's supposed to, put it back on the engine, put power to it again, and then something died inside the starter and it doesn't even spin on the bench now. So this is where I started cannibalizing stuff off the T. With the T's good starter that old banger whirled right over.
A basic ignition circuit, set the timing and...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIyHkECBAxM
... that's as far as we had time to go today. It was getting colder (and it was already only 28) and sleet was coming in. With a two hour drive home ahead of me I wanted to try to get out in front of the weather.
I think the timing is just off. It wants to but it's not quite there and can't catch. Next weekend it will run... I'm very sure of it.
This battery, date coded June 1988, gives us a clue as to the last time it was really rocking and rolling...
At this point the engine was still stuck but had been sitting with ATF in the cylinders for about a week. We had a socket that matched the crank nut but there was no way to get a tool on it with it on the nut. We puzzled over this for a moment, then I realized there was probably a crank handle under the seat... et voila. Now- I've been lucky with 3 random pasture engines so far. Will I score with a fourth? Lo and behold...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42cTqXEH0Bw
At this point we figured we'd better take the shifter top off and see why it no longer wanted to shift. It had reluctantly gone into second gear while I was tinkering with it in Brady, but after that trip now didn't want to.
The old oil had turned to a solid pack of grease in both the transmission and the engine. This stuff was rock solid. About 30 minutes with a heat gun was able to get it to liquefy and start draining; we chased it with some brakleen until it was all outta there.
We got the transmission drained and cleaned out and she shifts good now. Even the detents are nice and strong, I couldn't believe it. This truck is eager to go...
Next step was to put power to it and see what it would do. (The original wiring is all shot so we scabbed some stuff in.) Initially the starter would spin but the bendix wouldn't budge; we pulled it off, cleaned it up and got the bendix to retract and extend like it's supposed to, put it back on the engine, put power to it again, and then something died inside the starter and it doesn't even spin on the bench now. So this is where I started cannibalizing stuff off the T. With the T's good starter that old banger whirled right over.
A basic ignition circuit, set the timing and...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIyHkECBAxM
... that's as far as we had time to go today. It was getting colder (and it was already only 28) and sleet was coming in. With a two hour drive home ahead of me I wanted to try to get out in front of the weather.
I think the timing is just off. It wants to but it's not quite there and can't catch. Next weekend it will run... I'm very sure of it.
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trevorsworth
Member
By the way, seems I lucked out with the transmission case. I scraped away all the old dried up gunk around the common crack points and it seems solid! So we're in business.
trevorsworth
Member
I went on a bit of a shopping spree... Eckler's had a bunch of stuff in the open box/clearance section of their AA category. One of the things I nabbed was a window channel kit, which on their site was labeled just "Frt Door Windowchannel Kt/ 1931" and was in the AA category. I just got the box today and the box is labeled as for a slant windshield/Vicky. Comparing product photos it does not look any different from those for the truck but I know the door geometry is a little different between the two. Does anyone know if these will work on my truck or should I leave it in the box?
I got a copy of the Green Book as suggested but of course this stuff is not described there.
I got a copy of the Green Book as suggested but of course this stuff is not described there.
Joe K
Well-known member
A couple of weeks ago I came home from Torrington, CT with not one but TWO 4 speed trannys. I took both with a sort of "feel" that at least one of these might have an issue. That has been my experience before with the 26K rolling chassis, and the barn-find "basketcase."
In one I found the crack - EXACTLY as Vince describes.
BUT - I did buy both at a most excellent price and without knowledge of if I might need to "pick the best parts" to make at least one good ******.
It is surprising what is out there among the AA crowd in parts. One source even had the "thumblatch" which was used by Ford up into the 1950s. The thumblatch he sent is "new old stock."
Joe K
In one I found the crack - EXACTLY as Vince describes.
BUT - I did buy both at a most excellent price and without knowledge of if I might need to "pick the best parts" to make at least one good ******.
It is surprising what is out there among the AA crowd in parts. One source even had the "thumblatch" which was used by Ford up into the 1950s. The thumblatch he sent is "new old stock."
Joe K
trevorsworth
Member
That old truck started up today- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xy0xIjZTJU8
Running on gasoline in that video, but we've still got a ways to go. I put a new wire harness in it and we had to replace the wire between the bottom and top plates in the distributor because it was grounding out on the distributor body. It is still running kinda rough, but there is a vacuum leak at the line for the windshield wiper and it seems the carb gasket didn't seal at all, so it's sucking air through there too. I'm sure it will improve after addressing those issues and letting it warm up.
The water pump is really really tight and even after greasing and soaking in PB blaster it does not want to spin free. But it turns out that radiator actually is good... holds water and wasn't full of junk somehow, so we cleaned it out and will run it. We didn't have any hose clamps big enough for the new hoses I bought (durr) so we couldn't go much further today. I am really confident the truck will drive, though.
Running on gasoline in that video, but we've still got a ways to go. I put a new wire harness in it and we had to replace the wire between the bottom and top plates in the distributor because it was grounding out on the distributor body. It is still running kinda rough, but there is a vacuum leak at the line for the windshield wiper and it seems the carb gasket didn't seal at all, so it's sucking air through there too. I'm sure it will improve after addressing those issues and letting it warm up.
The water pump is really really tight and even after greasing and soaking in PB blaster it does not want to spin free. But it turns out that radiator actually is good... holds water and wasn't full of junk somehow, so we cleaned it out and will run it. We didn't have any hose clamps big enough for the new hoses I bought (durr) so we couldn't go much further today. I am really confident the truck will drive, though.
trevorsworth
Member
Yesterday we cranked out a lot of work in a hurry - replacing the water pump, motor mounts and radiator mount, as well as all the rubber, and a few other little things. Since I will not be doing a ton of very involved metal work on this truck, I decided to move it from my friend's shop 2 hours away to another friend's shop here in town so that I have better access to the truck.
I tossed an extra Model A seat in the cab and drove the truck for the first time around my friend's yard, then up onto the trailer to bring it home. Then it fired up again and pulled itself off the trailer and all around the property.
This means... the truck is running, driving and stopping! There is a lot to do yet... but it runs smooth, doesn't smoke and seems to make plenty of power. Not bad for a truck that hasn't run in nearly forty years.
My plan with this truck is to kind of leave it 'as is'. I don't plan to patch the little bits of rust in the cab or repaint it, but I want to stabilize it, conserve it, see if we can get some lustre back in the paint and enjoy it for what it is. I think it counts as a survivor... I don't really want to overdo this one.
The next major project on the truck will of course be the body wood. I currently have the top wood set but the body wood, though paid for, has not yet shipped. I'm pretty anxious about this part of the project... once I hit this point with my coupe I psyched myself out and traded it off for a project that wouldn't need wood. But that car was a lot rougher and I knew much less than I do today.
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trevorsworth
Member
One thing I need to do sooner than later is some conservation work. Like I said, I think it's fair to call this truck a survivor in its current state and I don't want to take that away from it. The chassis is in good shape but the paint is flaking off here and there leaving bare metal to rust, and there are a couple of rust spots in the cab - not severe enough that I want to strip it and repaint it, but I need to deal with them somehow, especially at the bottom of the cab back. The running boards have a couple of spots too but again nothing serious.
I am thinking I am going to leave the cab bolted to the frame while I work through the wood, then once it's square and tight, pull it so I can get the fenders and running boards off. I bought some Eastwood rust encapsulator primer that I will brush paint the chassis with after powerwashing and sanding to remove the loose paint and rust scale. (I also need to do this to get the serial number off the frame because the truck did not come with a title and the engine is a replacement with no number to use.)
For the body, I am thinking a CLR treatment on the outside to remove rust stains from the paint and to neutralize what active rust there is in three spots, after which I will use the wipe-on clearcoat product Poppy's Patina on all the external painted surfaces to hopefully restore some depth and lustre to the faded paint. The inside subframe, insides of hidden body panels (cowl and door skins) and structural elements that will be hidden behind interior panels will get the chassis black rust encapsulator treatment. All of this interior conservation will have to be done before the body wood goes in, of course.
I think this is the best route to keep the truck looking like an honest, well-kept blue-collar hauler that I can still put to work and not have to worry about scratching expensive paint.
I am thinking I am going to leave the cab bolted to the frame while I work through the wood, then once it's square and tight, pull it so I can get the fenders and running boards off. I bought some Eastwood rust encapsulator primer that I will brush paint the chassis with after powerwashing and sanding to remove the loose paint and rust scale. (I also need to do this to get the serial number off the frame because the truck did not come with a title and the engine is a replacement with no number to use.)
For the body, I am thinking a CLR treatment on the outside to remove rust stains from the paint and to neutralize what active rust there is in three spots, after which I will use the wipe-on clearcoat product Poppy's Patina on all the external painted surfaces to hopefully restore some depth and lustre to the faded paint. The inside subframe, insides of hidden body panels (cowl and door skins) and structural elements that will be hidden behind interior panels will get the chassis black rust encapsulator treatment. All of this interior conservation will have to be done before the body wood goes in, of course.
I think this is the best route to keep the truck looking like an honest, well-kept blue-collar hauler that I can still put to work and not have to worry about scratching expensive paint.
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