3-speed Toploader - wrong yoke?

ebruns1

ebruns1

Member
Hey Fellas,

I've been going out of my mind trying to find the correct rear trans seal for my recently purchased 1950 1/2 ton with a 289 engine and trans. We are speculating that the engine may be from a 1964 Mustang. The problem is evey reference I can find says the rear trans seal has an ID of 1 1/2". My yoke is only 1 3/8" diameter and there is no seal listings in any catalog with that ID for the Ford 3 speed. Unfortunately we have no idea where the p.o. got the drivehsaft but it is clearly made up of two shafts welded together. The rear looks original to the 1950. Does anyone know what is the correct seal for a 1 3/8" yoke that would fit my trans? OD if I remember is around 2.37 (?). Any help appreciated!

JT
 
If your trans is a T85 you need a tailshaft seal for an FMX automatic, it's the same seal. I went through this with my Merc a couple of years ago.
 
The 289 was used in a lot of vehicles. When you use "top loader" as a reference, that can mean two things. If it is top shift then that would be different than top load with side shift that was used a lot in Fords. A lot of Mustangs had the narrow 4-bolt pattern Borg Warner 4-speed. These were side shift with a shifter bolted to the side. Those early ones were 5-bolt bell pattern and had the bell housing to match. Pickups may have had a top shift transmission.
 
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Dobie Gillis said:
If your trans is a T85 you need a tailshaft seal for an FMX automatic, it's the same seal. I went through this with my Merc a couple of years ago.
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Hey Dobie, thanks for the info but when I looked up the T85 FMX trans seal on the Rock Auto site it still lists the shaft diameter as 1.5" and not 1 3/8". Do you have a source for the seal with the smaller diameter? That is the problem, they all have them for the 1 1/2" shaft.
 
Again, mine is a 3 speed trans, not 4 speed. I thought I read somewhere that the early 64' Mustang 6 cyl engine may have had a 1 3/8" yoke and after that year they all switched to 1 1/2". So I need the seal for the 1 3/8" smaller shaft diameter. Thanks

JT
 
PS - The trans has a stamp on it: HED-BK-0137-15

Calipers on the trans where the seal should be show:
OD 2.35, and for the ID 1.37

It had the wrong seal which is how we discovered the leak and problem so old seal number would not help. The PO probably used a different drive shaft to make this one possibly. I may be stuck and have to buy a new yoke and probably whole new driveshaft.
 
If you have the seal out you could take to an auto parts store and they can match it up. Try to find one that has a grizzled old timer or 2 behind the counter. Those guys aren't afraid to get into a paper catalog and do some research. Another option would be a transmission shop.
 
ebruns1 said:
The trans has a stamp on it: HED-BK-0137-15

Calipers on the trans where the seal should be show:
OD 2.35, and for the ID 1.37

It had the wrong seal which is how we discovered the leak and problem so old seal number would not help. The PO probably used a different drive shaft to make this one possibly. I may be stuck and have to buy a new yoke and probably whole new driveshaft.
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The trans itself is a 2.77 3/S (1960-1967).

One would need a period MPC to get into the correct Parts List.

EDIT (Fr. For I Forgot To Ask)-

Does the yoke fit the extension housing bushing?
 
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Kultulz,

Great info thanks! I ordered the seal from NAPA and will give it a try. The shaft diameter looks correct, but the OD might be off a little, I'm not sure why. The seal spec says 57.25mm and we are measuring 59.8mm. Hopefully we are a little off and this one will fit. Will let you know once I get it.
 
KULTULZ makes a valid point, the bushing in the tail housing must match your yoke. If someone was mixing/matching parts this could easily be overlooked.
 
Great point 40cpe and Kultulz!

How would I be able to check that fit? If I have the wrong yoke it would only be 1/8" smaller in diameter than the 1 1/2" yoke. I doubt I would be able to look in and see that, would I? The more information I gather leads me to believe my trans should have had a 1 1/2" yoke.
What if I try to slide a 1.5" OD dia. section of pipe into the tail shaft, if it fits in I guess that would confirm it, am I correct? I don't have a 1.5" yoke laying around to test it with.
Sorry for any seemingly dumb questions...I'm still learning. You guys are a treasure trove of experience for us newbies!
 
Oh, and various sizes U-joints. Even some with one size, and the caps 90 degrees out a diffrent size.
 
ebruns1 said:
How would I be able to check that fit? If I have the wrong yoke it would only be 1/8" smaller in diameter than the 1 1/2" yoke. I doubt I would be able to look in and see that, would I? The more information I gather leads me to believe my trans should have had a 1 1/2" yoke.

What if I try to slide a 1.5" OD dia. section of pipe into the tail shaft, if it fits in I guess that would confirm it, am I correct? I don't have a 1.5" yoke laying around to test it with.
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Simply insert the yoke into the tail-shaft and see if it is fairly tight within the bushing (if loose, it may be wrong yoke and/or bushing or simply a worn bushing).

Without FORD PARTS PERIOD CATALOGING, there is little chance of ID'ing exactly what you have and what you might need.

FORD 277 HED IDENTIFICATION- 1960-66 Cars

Cast iron, top loaded case with 4-bolt tin top cover and 3-bolt front bearing retainer. The extension housing can be either cast iron or aluminum. Side shift linkage with non-synchronized 1st gear, 24 tooth brass synchro rings for 2nd and 3rd and a four-step cluster gear. Main shaft 1st gear has a helical angle pitched to the right.

This 3 speed was found only in 6 cylinder vehicle applications.
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Using Kultulz"s info about this being a 6 cyl trans and all of the rest of the given measurements,my books say

for a 1.3725/1.3735 dia shaft and a 2.252/2.256 O.D. thats .609 to .641 wide
the Ford part# is CODR 7052 A

Hope this helps.

Oldmics
 
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Oldmics said:
Using Kultulz"s info about this being a 6 cyl trans and all of the rest of the given measurements,my books say...

Oldmics
Click to expand...

THANX!

Do you have a period MPC? If so, use the TRANS ID No and see what it says about the 7A034 bushing
 
I think Ford had two different light duty top load 3-speeds transmissions in that time frame plus one side load. The top was rectangular shape on one and the other had a U shaped top cover. My books only go to 1959 so that may be of no help. If the bell housing has the narrow 4-bolt transmission pattern (Borg Warner type) there are a lot of transmissions that may fit it clear back to the 1949 Ford cars.
 
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