29 A turns over won't start

J

jwinterstein

Junior Member
I have a good battery - turns the engine over but no horn and no lights. Is this an issue with the ignition switch or should I be checking all grounds and connections?
 
You need to see if you have spark, and fuel. Then trouble shoot from there.
With no information to go on the advice will be real basic until the problem materializes.
Bob
 
Do you have a fuse by the starter?? The lights and horn are
not affected by the ignition switch in the original system.

Bob
 
Bad Ammeter, maybe? Or wiring to the ammeter.

Just as a starting point, I'd try connecting a wire between the two posts on the junction box (jumper wire bypassing the ammeter) and then see if your horn and lights work. If they do work it will probably start; providing everything else is in order.
 
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What have you done to check for the reason it won't start ? Have you checked for power or fuel ? If so, where.

Step on the brake pedal and see if the stop lights come on and the ammeter shows a discharge, then the ammeter is OK.

As said, the lights and horn have nothing to with the ignition system.

I would suggest getting a good repair manual, some tools and a test light.
 
Bob C asked what I wondered, my truck has the fuse on the starter and the fuse will lose its conection even with dielectric grease on it. I just have to roll the fuse a few times in the holder and the engine will fire. Clyde
 
The car was stored for the winter. Ran fine when I put it up on jacks. I have fuel getting through the carb which I did remove and clean just in case it was gummed up. I did put Stabil in the gas. I have not checked for spark which seems to be likely but do not know why no horn and no lights - which should work regardless of the ignition system I think. By the way I have a great set of tools and a two volume set of manuals for the Model A and have worked on cars for decades, (being 72 years old). I just thought perhaps someone had a similar problem and a great idea. Since it started and ran and had horn and lights when I stored it my first thought was fuel. Just what might have happened to change spark while being stored I don't know. I will work through all of the potential issues.
 
jwinterstein said:
I have a good battery - turns the engine over but no horn and no lights. Is this an issue with the ignition switch or should I be checking all grounds and connections?
Click to expand...

Do you have a fuse? Have you checked it?

No Spark
Some possibilities are:
1.Blown or defective fuse (use of a fuse is an aftermarket item)
2.Bad connections at ammeter, or ammeter itself (t0 find out put a jumper wire from one post of the terminal box to the other to take the ammeter out of the circuit temporarily)
3.Bad ignition switch and/or cable, or loose cable connection at switch.
4.Loose or broken wires at bottom of coil
5.Loose or broken wires inside terminal box
6.Loose, bare or broken pigtail wire under distributor plate, or wire grounding to plate or distributor body
7.Points not opening, or point arm grounding to cam due to worn rubbing block
8.Worn electrode in underside of distributor cap
9.Loose or broken high tension wire from coil to cap
10.Condenser burned out or grounding (some condensers are too long and can touch the distributor body inside)
11.Weak coil
12.Rotor not turning due to loose cam screw or bad timing gear.


Ok now break out a volt meter (a light bulb can give false readings).
Start at the fuse block, you should have voltage on both sides of the fuse. If you only have voltage on one side, replace the fuse or fuse block.

Now with voltage on both sides of the fuse, move up to the junction box. There should be voltage at both terminals. If voltage is present only on one side the problem is at the ampmeter and you should Jumper the ampmeter for now.
You should have voltage on both sides of the coil. If not,
remove the red wire on the coil and check again. If you now have voltage on both sides, you have a problem further on. If the voltage is still only in one side you have a bad coil.

Open the points with a piece of paper and remove the condenser. Turn the key on and you should have voltage at the points.
Replace the condenser and you should still have voltage.

If voltage is missing, remove the top plate and check for voltage on the bottom plate.

Check is the connector from the ignition switch screwed in to far? Do you have voltage on the wire to the upper plate?

Is this wire shorting to ground or broken?
Remove the paper from the points and see that the points are closed. You should not have 0 volts at the points. If not,
The points are dirty or the distributor is not grounded well to the engine.
 

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jwinterstein said:
The car was stored for the winter. Ran fine when I put it up on jacks. I have fuel getting through the carb which I did remove and clean just in case it was gummed up. I did put Stabil in the gas. I have not checked for spark which seems to be likely but do not know why no horn and no lights - which should work regardless of the ignition system I think. By the way I have a great set of tools and a two volume set of manuals for the Model A and have worked on cars for decades, (being 72 years old). I just thought perhaps someone had a similar problem and a great idea. Since it started and ran and had horn and lights when I stored it my first thought was fuel. Just what might have happened to change spark while being stored I don't know. I will work through all of the potential issues.
Click to expand...






OK, don't get mad. Didn't know of any experience from the post. I didn't see where you mentioned/answered whether you had a fuse or not. Its easy to check for spark and fuel. If it was OK last fall, I'm thinking it should be something easy like dirty/corroded points.
 
Thanks Patrick - yes, I do have a fuse and it "seems to be good." I will check the points because I just think the problem has something to do with corrosion that occurred through the winter. First I thought "fuel" because I have had some issues with that on smaller motors recently, but I don't think that is it. I need to check for spark and will definitely take a look at the points. Thanks again. When I find it I will repost.
 
dont get ahead of things....use a volt meter or testlight and ck to see if you have power on both sides of the fuse..
if so see if you have power at the cutout 2 wires..
if not you probably have an issue at the junction box / ammeter use the simple wiring diagram to trace.
you can also ck to see if you have power at the coil..
these 3 checks will take 15 seconds and tell us whats going on
 

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I would take a look at the points with a piece of fine sand paper. I had them oxidize on me from sitting a couple of months. It just takes a second. Just a thought.
 
Yes, the fix has already been mentioned. If it ran when parked, but now lacks spark, the most likely casue is oxidized points. But the fact that the lights and horn don't work throws the cause towards the fuse or junction box/ammeter part of the circuit.

The path of current flow from the battery to the lights/horn connection is simple and as Mitch mentioned takes only seconds to find where it stops. I'll mention the flow and test points.

Starter swtich.....................TEST POINT
Fuse (aftermarket)...............TEST POINTS (both ends)
Terminal box wing nut...........TEST POINT
Other terminal box wing nut...TEST POINT
Cutout (battery side)............TEST POINT

Just clip your test light to a good ground, then touch each test point with the light (or volt meter) and you will find where the current stops. As Mitch said, it takes only seconds for these checks.
 
Mike V. Florida said:
Ok now break out a volt meter (a light bulb can give false readings).
Click to expand...

I like everything you wrote except the above, a voltmeter will detect voltage, a test light will confirm current flow. I.e. The circuit does not have a high resistance somewhere.

I use several different multi-meters for trouble shooting in certain circumstances, but my favourite tools are test lights. I have several with different bulbs that I have made up myself. For example if I am testing for a headlight not lighting up, I use a headlight bulb as a test light, a parking light bulb for parking light problems, etc. When in doubt as to the current draw of the item to be tested such as a coil, I use the biggest light bulb to draw the heaviest current.

Hope this helps

Ian
 
Like Ian, I also like to test with current flow more than with volts or ohms. That's why I always check generator field coils by using a 6 volt charger with an amp meter, and look for about 4 amps currect draw on the common long generator.

I could use my ohm meter and look for about 1.5 ohms, but even a poor solder connection between the 2 field coils can show 1.5 ohms. It would take a good connection to show 4 amps of current flow.
 
Thanks to everyone for the great advice!

I have not had much time since I posted. I did check the fuse and rolled it a bit back and forth. Now have lights and although no horn sound (takes a bit more juice) when I hit the button I see the ammeter shows a draw. I did change the fuel filter just because and will get to the ignition system when I get my next chance in 2 weeks! Need more TIME!
 
Just loosen the horn adjustment screw until the motor spins, then go clcik by click back in until the horn gives the right sound.
 
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