1939 pickup solenoid

[CP]

We bought another 6v coil and all was fine and installed with the "+" to the distributor since truck is 6v "-" ground. Truck solenoid started clicking recently. I have been unable to find a wiring diagram for a 1939 pu. Van pelts does not show. All part suppliers show the solenoid as a 3-post. The exist solenoid that appears to be junk is a 12v 4 post that appears to been converted to 6 volts somehow by "markings". Evidently this converted solenoid is toast since it got really hot and started smoking.

The questions....is there a wiring diagram for this truck? 1939 pu (was a fire truck).

Solenoid part numbers based upon a couple reputable suppliers are:
01A-11450 (steel Ford Script) and 21A-11450 (Bakelite Ford Script).

Both Solenoids are available and are "3-post".

After removing old 4-post converted 12v with the "correct" 6v 3-post, what to do with the "extra" wire.

Upon reading, the extra wire appears to be a ground, yet being "+" ground, I am really confused.

I plan on starting the truck by bypassing this solenoid entirely to make sure the starter is working. After that, I could use some guidance.

CP

 

[Clem Clement]

Solenoid?

 

[CP]

call it a relay? I believe I spelled it correctly...they call it a starter solenoid with push button. I could be wrong....I could definitely be wrong.

 

[CP]

part number 11450....or are you just teasing me....

 

[CP]

you are correct as usual...the "Book" calls it a "Starter Switch". The suppliers call it a solenoid. Trying to get my jt together here.

 

[Tinker]

Right or wrong... I've always called it a starter solenoid.

3 post is simple.
Battery one side.
starter the other.
Small post for the push button on the dash.

4 post is...
Battery one side.
starter the other.
1 small post for the push button or key ignition on the dash.
1 small post to the coil directly (gives the coil full voltage when starting)

 

[CP]

we have an extra wire, I'm not looking at it, but I believe it may go to the coil. Truck is at bro's house. will be looking at this week, weather permitting.

I guess Im asking, should it not be a 3-post (original) and if so, what to do with the coil wire. ?

Then you get into negative ground again issue that started all this.

I do not like electric current yet it has made my life so much simpler. I need to learn at some point without starting a fire. Already did that.. thanks.

 

[JSeery]

Well, I am confused, what do you have? Are using 6v or 12v? Is it positive ground or negative ground? Are you using a pushbutton?

Different starter solenoids work completely differently. Original Fords were wired with a 6v positive ground system and the original starter solenoid uses a ground to energize. It has to be installed with the Battery connection on the side that the energizer coil is connected to.

12v starter solenoids tend to be wired such that the energizer coil is connected to ground (in the solenoid) and requires a current provided from somewhere like an ignition switch connection to energize.

There are numerous different configurations of solenoids, but one basic difference is one type requires a ground to energize and the others require a current source to energize.

The additional terminal on some 12v solenoids is to provide full battery voltage to the ignition coil while the solenoid is energized.

Note: I remove a second diagram, it was specific to a problem and just confusing to this thread.

 

[JSeery]

The wiring diagram should be very similar to the car diagram for 39. Which one will depend on if your configuration uses a cut-out or a voltage regulator.

 

[Ken/Alabama]

The solenoid does have a positive side and is marked. Make sure it's not backwards.

 

[CP]

u guys are killing me with this positive ground stuff...yes. the truck is original (positive ground). The solenoid we removed but was a converted 12v 4-post to run on 6volts. We want to replace the solenoid with a 3-post (as original). Thus we have an extra wire to coil. My 1st thought is that the coil wire will go to the dash key switch and we are all set. however, i do think the truck has a regulator as well....oh the shame....There is an internal resistor under the dash too. I thought these cars were for the "simple minded", who knew? for that appears to not be the case. We will post again after we blow something up. I'll be holding the fire extinguisher.

 

[40cpe]

There was originally a resister under the dash between the ignition switch and the coil. The second small terminal usually goes the the coil on the same terminal as the wire from the ignition/resister. It will give full battery voltage to the coil while cranking to aid in starting. If you use a 3 post solenoid the 4th wire will be eliminated.

 

[Tinker]

As I mentioned and so has 40cpe. The 4th pole to the coil is only active to the coil when starting or cranking the motor. (gives the coil full voltage when starting).

Sounds like you have an interesting electrical setup.

If it was 12v why switch it back to 6v?

 

[JSeery]

"u guys are killing me with this positive ground stuff...yes. the truck is original (positive ground)."

Well, what does this refer to then???

"since truck is 6v "-" ground."

Ok, on to your question. The wire from the starter solenoid to the coil belongs in the trash. It will not work properly on this setup and is not required. If you are going to keep the original 6v "+" ground, LOL, then it needs to be wired up correctly as the original was. I would venture a guess that more than just the wiring was messed up on your truck. It may well be that the wrong coil is installed which might account for the jumper from the starter solenoid. Might want to start by determining what coil is installed.

The wiring on these cars/trucks are about a simple as it can get, just because someone messed it up doesn't reflect on the original design. I think you will be very pleased with the wiring back to the original configuration. You made a comment about an ignition switch, are you referring to the on/off switch or a key turn modern switch?

What you want to use for a wiring diagram is the 39 std (which is what a commercial vehicle should be). But if it has been converted to a voltage regulator (a very common modification in years past), then you will need to use the 39 dlx diagram. There really isn't that much difference in the wiring between the two.

 

[Tinker]

Just as a warning since the coil is now in the mix. Don't leave power to the coil on for long periods (if not running) while messing with the truck. You'll most likely smoke the coil.

If everything was 12v converted your going to run into a lot of little issues if you just put a 6v "-" ground battery in it. You mentioned a voltage regulator, is it 12v? Your charging system (generator) is it 12v? Lights? Coil?

If you want it 6v then get new harnesses and get ready to learn. Might as well make it + ground like it was originally setup.

Take a bunch of pictures of the wiring and post them. It'll help over all.

 

[CP]

--sorry, i typed "-" when i meant "+" ground.

--why did it have a 12v solenoid? because someone installed it and converted (just the solenoid) to 6v to match the 6v truck.

--I'm going to take a picture and post as soon as i can. Sorry for confusion.

cp

 

[Tinker]

Depending on the 4 post solenoid it could be a 6v one. How do you know it is 12v?

Ford tractors had a 4 post 6v solenoid. Which could be used for a hot start.
http://www.tractorpartsinc.com/ford_tractor_parts_relay_6_volt_311007_2676_prd1.htm

 

[JSeery]

Could be Tinker, but the issue would be how it was wired up in the truck. That type of solenoid (Ford tractor) requires a "hot" connection from the ignition switch to energize. A Ford three post car/truck solenoid requires a "ground" to energize.

 

[CP]

pic of the 4-post 6 volt positive ground solenoid(starter switch) to be installed.

Of course there are no markings on the small terminals designating "+", "-", "S", "I", "R" or anything else for that matter. Brother states he installed with the same wires going to the same terminals as the older version.

The "botton" on the solenoid cranks, but the button on the dash does "not" work now. The truck does not run.

Second "New" 6v coil "properly" installed (positive ground).

I'm guessing we may have damaged the dash switch. will be looking at tomorrow night.

Thanks again all, and will keep you posted.

cp

 

[JSeery]

New 6v coil

What are the coil specifications? Are you sure it is the correct coil for your system? What is the primary resistance? Not just any 6v coil will work.