1936 distibuter timing

Ted,

Really appreciate your trying to help.

In my earlier post(s) I referred to confusion. Some of this comes from a lack of agreement on terms. In your last post you described the points location, right set/left set, oriented as if you were facing the radiator.

I hope we can agree with the Ford Service Bulletins, as well as other manuals such as Motors and KR Wilson, that "left or right is viewed from the driver's seat not as viewed from the front ... "

Your book may be different. Still curious about which one you are using, as well as what tools/devices you are using. Are you using feeler gauges, rulers, a KR Wilson fixture or some other device(s)?
 
Hoop Thanks .I have no problem with the references sitting in the drivers seat.The timing devices I have are KRV26 and a Australian one ,The book is the common early shop book , reprint in green only has 47 or so pages not sure of the name I do have other books and they are all the same .I have the KR instructions also . I start with setting the Left set with feelers (sitting in T.D.S ) On this thread someone has put up the crab (1946) timing picture from the Ham ,This method addresses only one set of points .
 
The one with the distributor on is the Ausy one ,this will do the other models as you can lift the shaft up and down ,
 

Attachments

  • dizy 002.jpg
    dizy 002.jpg
    79.2 KB · Views: 86
  • dizy 003.jpg
    dizy 003.jpg
    65.4 KB · Views: 72
Ted,

Sorry for being so careful about lefthand/righthand. I know you guys down in NZ drive on the left side of the road. That's from the driver's seat, I hope.

My brief experience with driving to the left took all my concentration. Don't suppose Americans do a great job of texting on their cellphones while driving there.

Back to distributors. I would hope that more guys with experience would post, BUT without insisting that there is only one way to set the thing up. I'm pretty sure that until a person takes one apart and tries to set one up with feelers or with a fixture, he's never going to learn anything. If he has no curiosity or interest, fine. Send it off and let an expert do it.

If you are a hobbyist and like to tinker, a flathead distributor is ideal.

One other thing, for guys who think they want to dive into the deep end and buy a strobe machine, be sure you know what you're getting into. Have a source planned for parts and/or service. If I remember correctly, Bubba's runs an Allen. Other guys run Sun machines or the beautiful Ford one.

The make and model you buy makes a difference. Do a lot of research.

Even further, just because a guy has a strobe machine does not mean it is calibrated. These are good, strong machines but after 50 years or so, the capacitors, bearings, etc. are often shot. You will become involved in another hobby ... distributor test machine repair.

Flatheads and their distributors are a hobby. There's good support on the 'Barn for guys who try. Even guys who build distributors for $$$$, will freely give you all the help you need here.



SunMachDirty.jpg
 
Ted, I was busy posting and missed your pics. Is this the same as the Ausy one?
(Not mine. Just a photo.)


Timingfixwasco4.jpg
 
The basics for the dive-in-and do it with what you have:
Put in and gap points. Back in the days of good NOS points at the corner store, they generally run fine thus...
But onward: Build a simple fixture to mount a 360 protractor to base of shaft, OR it could go on the front on '42 up. (I posted by recipe using Home Depot and Ford parts with zero fancy stuff on the HAMB a year or two back...instructions in written form only, no pics)
Mark off the Ford dwell specs for points, the two arcs for the individual points and the total arc of dwell for the combined efforts of points.
Hook battery powered test light across point circuit...first, block one set at a time with a piece of cardbaord between contacts, test the other for individual point dwell. If proper gap has produced dwell numbers totally off from spec, you have some of the nice Chinese points now available. Adjust them to perfectly flat with a sledgehammer and order from a different supplier, maybe NAPA. With good points you should be in the ballpark.
Test total dwell once individual dwell is right. Again, if the singles are right, the pair should be close, if not maybe plate is bent somehow. Adjust right point (point that is on driver's right as he sits AT WHEEL) to fine tune total.
On three bolters, all final work must be done with coil in place, on '42-8 the contact post must be in there.
Proper timing should be close to center of scale, and can be set by Ford's field expedient means using a ruler. I posted the rather obscure 3 bolt ruler method here fairly recently, the 2 bolt ruler method is in the '46 service manual from Ford and is on line at Mac VanPelt's great site.
Remember that these things ran fine in the days when the KRW fixture was pretty high-zoot for small garages and the strobe was rocket science for the big dealers.
Most were lucky to have a decent feeler gauge and an offset screwdriver, and of course many people dodged timing by carefully marking where the factory set the scale and going back there.
This ain't a dynamic tune on a strobe, but it works.
 
Bruce,

Glad to see you are overcoming your shyness.

Absolutely correct. Read the patent. The distributor was designed to be set up by inexperienced, side of the road mechanics.

TRUE, you can make a science project out of it ... which you should pursue, but you have to start somewhere.

(I often refer to the KRW fixture as the Enigma Machine, captured from a German U-boat off New Jersey in '43.)

U-604Binn13.jpg
 
Ford designed his point plate from a design by ignition guru Marion Mallory, who in turn stole it from from the "Vitruvian Man" plan by an Italian engineer named Leonardo brought back to the USA after a Europen trip by Thomas Jefferson; Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin cracked the basic principle encoded in the drawing and left their hand written notes on the back of the original...all named parties above were 95th degree Masons, and the Masonic underground was instrumental in the multi-century connections. Ford of Germany (the Cologne branch) folded to Nazi pressure and spilled the design to the War office...the Enigma machine was actually 4 1942 Ford distributors colletted to a single shaft in a German-manufactured box.
Despite three years of increasingly high tech work by first Polish then British mathmaticians and physicists, the code was only partially broken, until in early 1943 a British Ford mechanic drafted into the RAF and working as the night janitor at Bletchly Park noticed an oddly familiar drawing on Sir Henry Tizard's desk...
The captured submarine was just a cover story put together by the Masons, who wished to maintain absolute international trust.
 
You left out the Mars connection. Aliens are always involved according to those crazy reality shows.
 
Well, there ARE markings on the back of the Masonic copy of the drawing (the one TJ stole from the Vatican archives, which is what prompted the coverup) that suggest Leonardo's calculations were NOT done in base 10 math like ours...this has led to EXACTLY that line of speculation about HIS origin.
 
OK, Here,s what I think is causing the problem. Both "rebuilt" distributors have excessive play between rotor and shaft, along with points being set by Ray Charles. I can't get enough advance timing. VanPelts is setting one up now. should be able to try it this week. I would like to know for sure the distributor is good first and if this doesn't fix the problem then I can work from there.
 
36 flathead said:
OK, Here,s what I think is causing the problem. Both "rebuilt" distributors have excessive play between rotor and shaft, along with points being set by Ray Charles. I can't get enough advance timing. VanPelts is setting one up now. should be able to try it this week. I would like to know for sure the distributor is good first and if this doesn't fix the problem then I can work from there.
Click to expand...

The dual points were to give longer spark charge time.
The points that are burnt the most would be the larger gap.They make on one lobe and brake or other lobe.Both set the same should work well.
 
Hoop they have banned the Tex ting here now while driving .I drove a left hand Model A here the other day, that was fun it was like driving in the gutter. ,I think the KR and others have the instructions far more complicated than the average Joe needs .
Hoop said:
Ted,

Sorry for being so careful about lefthand/righthand. I know you guys down in NZ drive on the left side of the road. That's from the driver's seat, I hope.

My brief experience with driving to the left took all my concentration. Don't suppose Americans do a great job of texting on their cellphones while driving there.

Back to distributors. I would hope that more guys with experience would post, BUT without insisting that there is only one way to set the thing up. I'm pretty sure that until a person takes one apart and tries to set one up with feelers or with a fixture, he's never going to learn anything. If he has no curiosity or interest, fine. Send it off and let an expert do it.

If you are a hobbyist and like to tinker, a flathead distributor is ideal.

One other thing, for guys who think they want to dive into the deep end and buy a strobe machine, be sure you know what you're getting into. Have a source planned for parts and/or service. If I remember correctly, Bubba's runs an Allen. Other guys run Sun machines or the beautiful Ford one.

The make and model you buy makes a difference. Do a lot of research.

Even further, just because a guy has a strobe machine does not mean it is calibrated. These are good, strong machines but after 50 years or so, the capacitors, bearings, etc. are often shot. You will become involved in another hobby ... distributor test machine repair.

Flatheads and their distributors are a hobby. There's good support on the 'Barn for guys who try. Even guys who build distributors for $$$$, will freely give you all the help you need here.



SunMachDirty.jpg
Click to expand...
 
This very day,I rebuilt a 37 distributor that is almost if not the same.It was frightning at first because these distributors are unlike any other distributor,but are quite simple if you take your time.The engine runs well except for a flooding 97 carb. James
 
If you need quality Flathead distributor rebuilding I have done many and use an early heyer machine. Have an H1 and a later set ( the one I use all the time). It is best to set them up on the Stroboscope electrically as you are emulating exactly how it is on the car ( or truck). Setting the dwell ( gap for mechanical reference) and then setting the timing correctly. In using the machine you can check for correct operation, bent shafts/bushing wear/ point float, etc. Point spring tension should be 18-22 o.z. for each sprint point.

I charge $125 for a rebuild which includes all cleaning, bead blasting, new set of points, assembly and correct setup. It makes the world of difference setting them up on the machine as opposed to the V126 KRW fixture. Can also test coils and condensers with them. I know it's not cheap but you get what you pay for.

Drop me a line if you need help.

Larry Shepard
St. Charles, MO
mlshpard@aol.com
 
Is the V-126 Timing Fixture (cam angle disc) and cam angle indicator needle available anywhere?

Peder
 
Damm!! I wish that I had known that the V8 distributor was this complicated back when I was 17 years old. I had a 34 2-door with a 59AB engine, finned aluminum heads(don't remember which kind), 16 inch wheels and dual exhaust. I just took the thing apart, looked to see how it worked, replaced the points and asked the parts store what the gap was and experimented with the advance and vacuum brake and was good to go. It ran like gang busters!!
 
I think your both correct! When you set the 'gap', it stays the same except for normal wear. When you time or set up a distributor by 'setting the gap', you are actually inherently setting the 'dwell' ( if I set the gap at 0.14, then the dwell is correct, or close enough).

If you set up the distributor on a machine which measures the 'Dwell', you individually set the 'gap' on each set of points to get the correct 'dwell', and thus the gap on each set of points may not be the same.

Wayne
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top