1935 torque tube

stude333

stude333

Member
I am installing a 1935 rear axle in my 34 pickup. I will be shortening the stock 35 torque tube to fit. Two questions:
1. does anyone know right-off what is the OD of the 35 torque tube.(I am not near it right now to measure)
2. any tips on shortening the '35 drive shaft. Since I will have this done at a drive shaft shop I would think it would be a problem. Most reading i did was steering me away from shortening the tapered drive shaft.
any comments greatly appreciated

Thanks Frankie
 
Both the torque tube and the driveshaft have to be shortened an equal amount. It is a big (and expensive) job. Check to see if the original tube and shaft will fit the earlier center section (banjo) of the axle. If so, it may be possible to make the swap. At our shop we shorten or lengthen drive shafts, and rebalance the result. It takes a long bed lathe and steady rests. Torque tubes usually are tapered. making alteration very tricky.
 
With respect, and in contrast to supereal, my driveshaft guy doesn't make much of a deal of it. He has the big lathe, balancer, and does this all the time. I'm pretty sure there is enough 'straight' section on the 35 d/s to easily do what you want to do. As for the torque tube, that could be diy, if you wanted to. The d/s could also be diy, but in my case, I don't have balancing equipment. Me & my Jeeping buddies do this sort of thing, fairly commonly, 'on-the-trail'. So, it's within reason, if you wanted to try it. My only caveat would be the balancing for a regular car application.
Obviously, just opinion here. Bob
 
Frankie not sure about the outer tube dimensions but to determine the amount to shorten would be the difference in wheel base length between the 34 and 35. Since the tapered 35 drive shaft has a straight section in the middle the shortening should be rather easy using a good pipe cutter then setting the two sections in a lath for welding this should would make the entire job easy. Considering your using a drive shaft shop to do the job the accuracy and balance should be an easy task for sure. The 35 tapered drive shaft tube did not use a bearing inside the torque tube so any modification you do should work fine.
Ronnieroadster
 
The 34 driveshaft uses straight pipe, not tapered. All you need are the two ends of driveshaft and a length of standard driveshaft tube. Can you find a 34 driveshaft? if so, all you'll need to do is shorten it a tad to suit the 35 banjo, or possibly it'll fit right up.
You do not need a tapered d/shaft.
 
stude333 said:
I am installing a 1935 rear axle in my 34 pickup. I will be shortening the stock 35 torque tube to fit. Two questions:
1. does anyone know right-off what is the OD of the 35 torque tube.(I am not near it right now to measure)
2. any tips on shortening the '35 drive shaft. Since I will have this done at a drive shaft shop I would think it would be a problem. Most reading i did was steering me away from shortening the tapered drive shaft.
any comments greatly appreciated

Thanks Frankie
Click to expand...


Hello Frankie...A friend of mine (HEARD here on the 'Barn) and I tackled a project a while back that required shortening his '35 drive shaft and torque tube. We mixed, matched and combined factory Borg-Warner T5 5-speed parts to end-up with the shortest T5 transmission in existence. We then proceeded to making adapters, and shortened the '35 torque tube and drive shaft to bolt-up to the rear of the T5 transmission just like it bolted to the original '35 Ford 3-speed trans. If you're interested, you can read and look at pictures of the entire project by clicking on the link just below, but pay particular attention to POST #6 ("LET'S CUT 'N GLUE BOTH ENDS TOGETHER") for pictures and extensive details on shortening the d-shaft and t-tube.


https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=206955&highlight=T5+TORQUE+TUBE


289224



I'm sorry, but I don't have the torque tube OD handy right now, but I do have several points for you to consider. First of all, having a drive shaft shop perform the surgery is a smart idea. If you can find an OLD shop like we did with an old GUY that has done this forever and knows some tricks, all the better!


Several things to consider. First of all, I'm not sure that you are aware that the '34 rear spring (and the rear crossmember that it fits into) are both CURVED forward at the outer ends when viewed from above. The '35 and later rear springs are STRAIGHT as viewed from above. This is something that will have to be seriously considered when figuring exactly where and how to locate the '35 rear end for purposes of determining how much to shorten the '35 t-tube and d-shaft. It is POSSIBLE (I can't remember spring lengths) that you may be able to mount the CURVED '34 spring onto the '35 rear assy.


One more consideration when determining lengths...the flat face on the banjo housing that the torque tube bolts to on the '35-48 banjo center housings is 1/2" farther forward from the axle center line than on the '34 banjo housing. Once you determine how you're going to mount the '35 rear end in the crossmember SPRING-WISE, and so that the tires/wheels are centered in the fender wheel opening, you need to lock rear end movement in a fashion such that the rear doesn't move while determining accurate dimensions. In the picture above, we simply used two pieces of electrical conduit flattened with a vise on each end. We drilled a hole on each end and bolted the rear of the conduit to two of the upper bolts on the banjo center housing, with the other ends bolting to some convenient holes on the chassis. This should hold the rear fairly steady at a pre-determined point under your chassis.


For measurement purposes, you must (of course) have the engine/trans mounted in their permanent location, with the torque tube receiving hardware/rear engine mount bolted to the trans. You must also have the Ford U-joint bolted to the transmission output shaft. DO NOT assume that the amount that you cut out of the drive shaft is automatically going to be the same amount that needs to come out of the torque tube. MEASURE EACH SEPARATELY, at the appropriate time!


After a couple of false starts in trying to determine EXACTLY what to measure for shortening, we finally realized that the critical measurement is going to be between the center line of the hole that the locking pin goes through the splined pinion shaft at the rear, and the CENTER of the speedometer gear on the transmission end. The speedo gear sits at a pre-determined location on the drive shaft that CENTERS the gear in the speedometer drive hole in the torque tube. NOTE: The info you received about NOT cutting EITHER the tapered d-shaft at the front, nor the tapered torque tube at the front is EXCELLENT advice. Make your cuts at the rear of each.


Place the drive shaft into the torque tube. Assemble the front bearing, speedometer gear and snap ring onto the d-shaft at front end. The speedo gear should line-up centered in the speedo drive hole. Securely bolt the two clam shell halves around the t-tube bell (after stabbing the drive shaft splines into the U-joint). Once the front of the t-tube and d-shaft are secured to the trans, carefully swing the rear end of the t-tube next to or above the rear torque tube flange surface on the banjo housing. Mark the torque tube precisely in line with the face of the flange on the banjo housing. This mark will indicate the TOTAL length of your modified torque tube (including the tube's rear flange) once re-welded.


Now, before you do anything else, measure precisely the distance between the BANJO t-tube flange face and the MIDDLE of the speedo gear. Now, carefully slide the torque tube toward the rear, leaving the drive shaft inserted into the U-joint. With the t-tube out of the way, carefully slide the d-shaft's aft end as close as you can next to the rear end splined pinion. To make sure everything is the same as before, measure between the rear banjo's torque tube flange face and the center of the speedo gear. Slide the d-shaft fore or aft in the U-joint until your measurement matches the measurement you made in the first sentence of this paragraph. Once the measurement matches your initial measurement, and with the d-shaft as close to the pinion as possible, mark the drive shaft in line with the center of the lock pin hole in the splined pinion. This is the distance that must match (speedo gear to lock pin hole) when your drive shaft has been cut and re-welded. It appears, from the picture above, that the coupler continues rearward on the splines a little more than another inch or so...just so that it's length does not exceed the total length of the pinion splines, as this part of the shaft remains fixed to the pinion and does not slide as the rear articulates up and down. Hope this helps you. Any more questions, just ask, or PM me...I'll try to answer. DD
 
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stude333, personelly i found this to be quite a bit more of a chalenge than expected. some of the forums respected opinions have been heard above, and it sounds so easy. first, i would never atempt to cut/weld a drive shaft in the center, too much chance of error. when i was searching for info you find the guys who cut it off and lay it on a piece of angle iron and weld it back and its just fine...i wonder, is it really? but, even with some skills and a lathe it is not an easy task i found. first, every used shaft i had,34, 5 of em, the front bearing surface was bad. you gonna make a new shaft with bad parts? so, one i made from a solid shaft and machine/weld for a good front. next, balance. i am in the mpls=stpaul metro area, 3.2 million people, and i called every driveshaft place and every street rod shop and nobody had any idea how to make one or balance one. driveshaft shops can not do it because they're machine is set up to grab onto a modern ujoint cross, not the female end of a ford shaft. i am a machinest of atleast hack status with a lathe long enough to do the job, but the next issue is it all moves when you weld it. so even in the lathe, useing the dial indicater to correct the movement, you end up with shaft with a crooked male splined end. when checking the 5 ford shafts in the beguining of the project, i found that the closest one was about 30 thou from straight, and the worst near 80. did they leave the ford plant like this? is it that important? if you grab those original ford shafts in a chuck on the spline and turn it, the far end is about 4" out of whack at 80 thou crooked on the male end. so i made two shafts, went to great lenghts to get them straight, and then went to a place that balances gigantic electric motor armatures for balance, they couldnt do it as it was too light. i then balanced them on a static balance a friend had and found that the rust pits on one shaft was enough to make the balance a nightmare too. so now they are both in cars that sadly dont have enough miles on to brag that i won. now for other info, yes the 35 center section of the diff is 1/2" longer than the 34 (9/16" if you want to technacal) , i have found that all banjo rears model a thru 48, if you lay a straight edge across the bell at the u joint, you will see that the splines end flush with the bell, and the roundish end of the shaft extends about an 1/8", so that is the length you are after. the 35 wishbones use a straight spring, the 34 is curved. the curved spring eyes are closer to the diff housing than the 35 so a straight spring puts the wheelbase back where it should be. if you grind a little out of the top few leaves to make clearance in the 34 curved crossmember it works. good luck. here's a link to a loooong read about my driveshaft expiriance. in the end, a guy, i forget who, tells about starting out with a new piece of 4130 tubing, and his method of building. which i would do next time around. best wishes https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=238891
 
Thanks for all you good comments. greatly appreciated and will take into advisement. I had called a driveshaft shop in Monrovia Ca( General Driveshaft) and explained what I was doing. He quoted me $170 total for shortening both and balancing driveshaft. That seems reasonable at twice the cost.

I did discover that the 35 axle assembly is 1" Longer from the spring hanger to the axle center so that shortens the driveshaft another inch. and makes the need to shorten the bed 1" in front of the axle, possibly. I do plan on using the 35/36 style rear whishbones. Hoever i will actually mount everything up and measure.

And in regard to the curved rear 34 spring pocket(t o fit the curved 34 spring) I plan on using a reverse eye front spring from 40 which is only 2" wide. I will probably make my own shackles to give the extra 5/16 shackle length needed and also cross from the 2 " spring to the 2-1/4" landing.

Having fun
 
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stude333 said:
Thanks for all you good comments. greatly appreciated and will take into advisement. I had called a driveshaft shop in Monrovia Ca( General Driveshaft) and explained what I was doing. He quoted me $170 total for shortening both and balancing driveshaft. That seems reasonable at twice the cost.

I did discover that the 35 axle assembly is 1" Longer from the spring hanger to the axle center so that shortens the driveshaft another inch. and makes the need to shorten the bed 1" in front of the axle, possibly. I do plan on using the 35/36 style rear whishbones.

And in regard to the curved rear 34 spring pocket(t o fit the curved 34 spring) I plan on using a reverse eye front spring from 40 which is only 2" wide. I will probably make my own shackles to give the extra 5/16 shackle length needed and also cross from the 2 " spring to the 2-1/4" landing.
Click to expand...


Hey Frankie....I agree that $170 is more than reasonable IF the guys know what they're doing and get it right.


I'm glad to see that you're going to stay with the '35-'36 radius rods. I did forget to mention that you'll have to cut the radius rod FRONT mount tab off the torque tube and re-weld it farther forward on the tube.


One more thing to be aware of when re-welding the torque tube...make sure that the rear, scalloped bolt flange on the tube remains clocked as original with the front part of the t-tube, like keeping in mind the position of the speedo drive hole. Also, on the rear 6-bolt flange, there is NOTCH located right next to the BOTTOM bolt hole. This is a lubricant drain provision that must line-up with the appropriate EXTRA hole in the complementary bolt flange on the banjo housing. See pictures below, and please let us know how this turns out. DD


Torque Tube Flange

355963





BANJO Flange...Note Pencil!

355975
 
stude333 said:
I plan on using a reverse eye front spring from 40 which is only 2" wide. I will probably make my own shackles to give the extra 5/16 shackle length needed and also cross from the 2 " spring to the 2-1/4" landing.
Click to expand...

Are you relocating the spring hangers? Seems like a front spring would be too narrow as the original front spring perches are about 42" inches while the rear perches are 48".
 
V8: The amount of flat head knowledge you have stuffed into your head is amazing.
Thanks for posting. Consider writing a boook.
Call it:
FLATHEAD KNOWLEDGE- BITS AND PIECES
(Stuff that's neat to know.)
 
19Fordy said:
V8: The amount of flat head knowledge you have stuffed into your head is amazing.
Thanks for posting. Consider writing a boook.
Call it:
FLATHEAD KNOWLEDGE- BITS AND PIECES
(Stuff that's neat to know.)
Click to expand...


Hey Jim....You mean that you believe all this crapola that I keep putting-out here? I'm afraid you'd actually be more-amazed at how much I've forgotten, or at the stuff that I never even knew in the first place. Happy Thanksgiving! DD
 
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