1935 Ford Juice Brakes

[Mr. Will]

Brake lines are a walk in the park to bend up out of the softer cupro nickel tube . It still complies with all regulations and bend and flares real nice.

I agree with my4dv8 on the cupro nickel brake line. Got mine at CARQUEST. beautiful bends with a bender or just use your fingers. Double flares are no problem with a basic double flaring tool.

Yep I am very familiar with the cupro nickel Tube. I made all the brake and fuel lines for my 57' Buick with that material and still have quite a bit 3/16 & 3/8" on hand although not 1/4".

 

[Mr. Will]

The 35 never had juice brakes as standard. Any 35 converted to juice brakes is non standard. How would you expect a supplier to tool up to supply pre bent brake pipes for a non standard application? Unless the supplier were doing the conversions themselves no two would be alike.

If you move away from stock you have to be prepared to do some things yourself.

Mart.

I figured it was a pretty common conversion and maybe someone offered them. I am very capable of doing my own fab work. I will probably make up my own but thought I would ask just in case. Just trying to cover all my options. Thanks For your impute.

 

[Mr. Will]

This is true but I bought all prebent lines for my 37 coupe from Classic Tube in Lancaster Pa. They had a program to do 1939 brakelines so that is what I went with as I was using 39 pedals and most everything else from a 39 Ford. The price was around $125.00 for the complete set but they would upgrade to stainless for another $25.00 which is what I did and everything fit perfectly with no leaks. I was going to go with Richards at the time but almost $400.00 for regular steel lines made me go with the 39 pedals and stuff I had and Classic Tube lines. A friend who has a 36 3 window that was converted to hydraulics before he bought the car over 50 years ago just bought the 39 set in stainless and he had no trouble with installation. The frames are close to being the same and areas that are a little different like the front crossmember the tubing is forgiving. You will have to drill and tap for 1/4-20 threads on rear radius rods for 39 type tubing clamps. If you use a 39 set of pedals and a master cylinder and install on frame where a 39 would have had them the programed 39 set should work,did on two jobs that I can verify.

From what I understand if trying to use the 39' pedals in a 35'-36 I would
still have to cut a bit on the frame and possibly the floor pan and I would have to move the battery to the other side...

I did not want to do that so I was looking at Richards setup. I want everything to look like it is original. The 39' lines may work but I need to figure out if they will be long enough to modify for Richards bracket that mounts the master crossways to the frame. I am going to a freinds this morning that has a 40' sedan builder he bought and is going to make it into a resto rod. If I can I will take the brake lines out of it and reproduce to fit my application. Thanks for your input.

 

[Mr. Will]

I have floaters on my 36 pickup with soft lining, it stops very well. the 36 feels like it has power brakes compared to my model a witch has 48 juice brakes!

I put brake floaters on my '35 fordor sedan last spring and they made a huge difference in how this car brakes. I have driven cars with hydraulic brake conversions, using '39-'48 components, that did not stop as well as my car stops now. The new Lincoln brake offers may be a different story.

The set I used was purchased from MAC's Antigue Auto Parts maybe 10 years ago. This was before I was aware of Flathead Ted's floaters. I plan to use a set of his floaters for my '35 coupe. I believe MAC's still offers both Ted's and a lower cost brand in their catalog, or at least they did the last time I checked.

How do the floaters work? What all is involved? I don't know that I would go this route but I sure would like to learn about them.

 

[flatheadfan]

Dan-

In all due respects I think you are creating a crisis where one doesn't exist. I have done several of these brake swaps (I currently have a '35 and a '36) and in my opinion pre-bent brake lines are a waste of time and money. What I usually do is install the key components namely, master cylinder and the four backing plates. Then measure the needed lengths and go to your local parts house and buy the stock lengths or order them.

The lengths I used recently on a '35 coupe are all "Easy-Bend" 1/4" tubing. I ordered them from Jackson's Oldtime Parts (218) 624-5791. Total cost: $54.95 The sizes were: 30" (2), 25" (2), 20" (6), 12" (8) 40" (2) and 6 couplers. The flex lines were purchased from Brake Hose Unlimited (616-836-7885). Nick Christman is the owner. He has a listing from me of the correct lengths and type of items you will need or have him call me (Tom Mason).

Hope this helps but, if you need some further information send me a PM.

Tom

 

[Charlie Stephens]

If after you have exhausted all of the standard brake line lengths you might consider going to a brake shop to have the few lines you needed to cut flared. Either that or invest in a quality brake line flaring tool.

Charlie Stephens

 

[Mr. Will]

Dan-

In all due respects I think you are creating a crisis where one doesn't exist. I have done several of these brake swaps (I currently have a '35 and a '36) and in my opinion pre-bent brake lines are a waste of time and money. What I usually do is install the key components namely, master cylinder and the four backing plates. Then measure the needed lengths and go to your local parts house and buy the stock lengths or order them.

The lengths I used recently on a '35 coupe are all "Easy-Bend" 1/4" tubing. I ordered them from Jackson's Oldtime Parts (218) 624-5791. Total cost: $54.95 The sizes were: 30" (2), 25" (2), 20" (6), 12" (8) 40" (2) and 6 couplers. The flex lines were purchased from Brake Hose Unlimited (616-836-7885). Nick Christman is the owner. He has a listing from me of the correct lengths and type of items you will need or have him call me (Tom Mason).

Hope this helps but, if you need some further information send me a PM.

Tom

If after you have exhausted all of the standard brake line lengths you might consider going to a brake shop to have the few lines you needed to cut flared. Either that or invest in a quality brake line flaring tool.

Charlie Stephens

Tom,
What pedals did you use and how did you mount the master?

Charlie,
I have decided to make my own lines. I have all the tools to do so including a tubing straighter. I did go out and pull all the lines off my friends 40' this morning. They have all the junction blocks, flex hoses to frame mounts and, clips. I can restore those and reuse so it will look 100% correct. I will just buy a 30' roll of 1/4" tubing and use the 1940' lines as a pattern. Thanks for your input it is appreciated.

 

[Mart]

Will, it sounds like you have the job well in hand.

Mart.

 

[flatheadfan]

Dan-

I have used '39 pedal assemblies and the V8 shop bracket. Both have advantages and disadvantages. The V8 shop unit is well made and easy to install. The downside is the master cylinder location. It isn't very convenient and doesn't seem adaptable to a remote fill. And, of course the unit is not a cheap unit if cost is a consideration. See picture.

The '39 pedal assembly was the common way to convert '35-'38 in the past. Pedal assemblies were common and relatively cheap. Not so today!

As for installation of the '39 assembly there is no need to relocate the battery but you will need to cut the frame to accommodate the bracket (see drawing). Access to the master cylinder is relatively easy but will require a floor hole. However, I have seen some applications that a remote filler was being used which would negate the floor hole. The clutch pivot arm will not line-up with the transmission arm. There are several ways to overcome this and I can provide pictures if that would help.

I also have a '54-'57 Ford remote vacuum booster on my '35 which gives astonishing braking power. It is relatively easy to install (see picture).

Finally, some thoughts on mechanical brakes. I currently I have a '36 with mechanical brakes with "floaters" and they can perform adequately. They do have some advantages over hydraulic brakes. Obviously, with mechanical brakes you don't need to worry about brake lines and leaky wheel cylinders. However, with mechanical brakes there are a lot of mechanical parts that must be top condition to work well and good parts are getting hard to find. Adjustment can be time consuming to get right and may be required frequently. Once everything is in sync, mechanical brakes can do the job.

Hope this helps.

Tom

 

[Mr. Will]

Tom, Great information...This is the master I was considering.

 

[Mr. Will]

Well I thought I would post a update on this project. I was on a trip to southern Oregon and stopped by Drakes and bought a set of his reproduction 39' pedals then last week I found a very nice set of original 39' Pedals locally so I am sending the reproductions back. Right now I am just trying to collect the parts to make the switch. Last fall I picked up a new set of USA made drums & hubs and two very nice sets of 37-40 spindles as well as a 35'-36' more drop 4" axle wishbone and spring. Does anyone have any suggestions on the best way to lower the rear of a stock 35' 36'? I have seen the banjo shock mounts but am not sure they would work on 35' 36'? Any input would be appreciated.

 

[V8 Bob]

Yep I am very familiar with the cupro nickel Tube. I made all the brake and fuel lines for my 57' Buick with that material and still have quite a bit 3/16 & 3/8" on hand although not 1/4".

Just curious, but why are you running the lines on top of the frame rails? It may be easy and look good, but there's not a lot of room between the body and frame, and smashed/damaged lines may result, as this routing is not normal.
Also, the rear frame to axle flex line looks too short to allow full axle jounce and rebound, but that might be just the picture.

 

[Mr. Will]

Just curious, but why are you running the lines on top of the frame rails? It may be easy and look good, but there's not a lot of room between the body and frame, and smashed/damaged lines may result, as this routing is not normal.
Also, the rear frame to axle flex line looks too short to allow full axle jounce and rebound, but that might be just the picture.

The original fuel line was rubber and it ran on the outside of the frame on the passenger side through the body mount pearches. There is plenty of room on the top of the frame rails for the both fuel and brake lines. I have had the body on and off several times test fitting for such things. The rear flex line is just right I have ran the rear through the full range of motion both up and down with shocks off and there were no issues. You can kind of see the holes for the fuel line here. Thanks for your input.

 

[V8 Bob]

Mr. Will,
You've got a very nice looking build going on, and am glad you have checked critical areas/items.

 

[BrianCT]

What happened to 'I want everything to look like it's original'???

 

[Mr. Will]

What happened to 'I want everything to look like it's original'???

That is my goal. What are you referring to?

 

[ford38v8]

That is my goal. What are you referring to?

He means "original what?"
Juice brakes were not "original" till 1939.

 

[Mart]

I think people might be looking at the Buick chassis and thinking it is the frame to go under the 35.

Mart.

 

[Mr. Will]

He means "original what?"
Juice brakes were not "original" till 1939.

I understand that but just want it to look like it was suppose to be be that way by using original 39 pedals & fittings.

 

[Mr. Will]

I think people might be looking at the Buick chassis and thinking it is the frame to go under the 35.

Mart.

Mart, I think you may be right, wheel base could be a bit of a issue there as well at 127-1/2"... Must be looking at the pics and not reading the thread...