1935 Ford Fire Engine

T

THE-SYNDICATE

Junior Member
Hey Gang,

Our Fire Department has it's original 1935 America La France Fire Engine that's based on what I think is a 1-1/2 Ton Chassis, "Model 51?". It has been upgraded with a '46~'48 flathead at some point but aside from that the chassis and drive train are all pretty much stock. We are about to replace the tires and clean a few more items up and I would love to know if switching this over to Juice brakes it much like one would do on the passenger cars of the era. Can I obtain brakes from a '39~on up era truck and bolt everything on? I understand that I'll need to make accommodations for the master cylinder and run lines but it's the backing late and drums I'm focused on. Can one still get wheel cylinders and lining for the shoes if not replacement shoes?

Thanks So Much!

~Robert Morris
Reserve Engineer, Healdsburg Fire Dept.
 

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You guys should check with the insurance carrier about the liability aspect of changing brake systems on city owned equipment. Any time down the line if that truck has an accident the lawyers would go crazy. Brake systems on a truck have to be done by a licensed truck shop.
Bruce
 
Switching to hydraulic brakes is not worth the time and money. Properly maintained mechanicals are the answer.
 
Why would you change to a questionable hydraulic brake modification ? Has someone been in your ear about "BAD" mechanical brakes. All you have to do is check over and repair as required the existing original mechanical brake system which will be good. You may have to study up on how it all works and most important to replace/rebuild all worn parts as required. Don't bugger it up by trying to fit an hydraulic system which will require a lot of new parts and engineering expertise. You have a very nice fire engine there. I worked in a big city Fire department engineering workshop for 34 years. Regards, Kevin.
 
Your truck looks to be in very good shape. If it's anything like the '48 Seagrave I used to have, it probably does not have enough miles on it to cause any significant wear to the running gear (except for the engine). These rigs usually get engine hours way out of proportion to road miles.
 
I think you're better off staying with the original mechanical brakes. No doubt that fire engine just sits a lot. Brake fluid easily absorbs moisture from the air, which causes corrosion and thus leaking wheel cylinders. You could end up having to overhaul wheel cylinders and master cylinder every time you want to enter a parade.
 
That truck even after a 100yr old sleep will have brakes with mechanicals especially
fire trucks that had a nice warm bed all its life. I have rescued countless vehicles
in my life right up to the present and all needed hydraulic brake work, some impossible
to find brake parts for. Back to the post. As a kid I worked for Construction Co. no I
didn't operate but carried a rag grease gun & oil can & a broom. We had three AC
Macks with Lorrane cranes and a Sterling. I remember all had vac brake boosters
somehow tied into the brake pedal. But they worked well. For the Mack AC lovers;
how in the world did they put new Ford 90hp V8s in them? A jack shaft over the engine
to run the fan, radiator on those is behind the engine? Oh well .
 
Additional reply. Here is some proof a genuine barn find chicken crap included. Original paint and all. So you take the guess how long it slept in
a leaking barn even has all-weather Goodyears still got WW 2 air in them.
As found after all these years its got brakes and stops on a dime. Try that with
stupid juice brakes. Got the motor freed up and runs fine...
 

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Take apart and sand drums and linings, check grease seals, grease
king pins and oil brake rod fittings and you will be good to go.
G.M.
 
When was the last time your fire engine had it's brakes serviced. As others have stated, a properly working mechanical brake system should suffice. If I'm correct the vehicle is used primarily in parades and not driven very fast. There are many components in your mechanical brake system, it's not only the drums and shoes. All the rods, bushings etc. can and should be replaced if necessary. I would invite your local V-8 Ford Club members to look over your system and give you an evaluation.
 
Good posts on this subject; I've had trucks with a Vaccum booster on the mechanical linkage, worked well. Also an unloaded truck will really stop well... those brakes were designed for the max GVW load. Newc
 
"Newc" - Your post reminded me of an occurrence I had. About 15 years ago, I was going to a fire muster with my '48 Seagrave and ran out of gas. That in and of itself was not a problem, but the engine died, leaving no vacuum for the brake booster. That truck did have hydraulic brakes, but without the booster, it was like I had no brakes at all. To bring it to a stop, I had to literally stand on the brake pedal with both feet and pull up on the steering wheel as hard as I could. I managed to get it stopped by sheer effort and scuffing up against a couple of curbs, but I had no idea how important that booster was to the operation of the system. My advice to "THE SYNDICATE" is forget about the hydraulic brakes and concentrate on getting the mechanical brakes and the booster (if there is one) in tip-top shape.
 
tubman said:
"Newc" - Your post reminded me of an occurrence I had. About 15 years ago, I was going to a fire muster with my '48 Seagrave and ran out of gas. That in and of itself was not a problem, but the engine died, leaving no vacuum for the brake booster. That truck did have hydraulic brakes, but without the booster, it was like I had no brakes at all. To bring it to a stop, I had to literally stand on the brake pedal with both feet and pull up on the steering wheel as hard as I could. I managed to get it stopped by sheer effort and scuffing up against a couple of curbs, but I had no idea how important that booster was to the operation of the system. My advice to "THE SYNDICATE" is forget about the hydraulic brakes and concentrate on getting the mechanical brakes and the booster (if there is one) in tip-top shape.
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Why did it lose the vacuum? Did you throw-in the clutch when it quit producing dinosaur-fueled RPMs? If the engine is still turning-over IN GEAR, that in and of itself will help slow the beast against compression, not to mention still producing vacuum as the engine continues to turn-over. Am I missing something? DD
 
Yes. Non-synchronous transmission. I put it in neutral when the engine died to try to restart it. Try putting a non-synchromesh transmission back in gear sometime when the engine is not running and the vehicle is moving. All I am trying to do here is to add to the discussion from my experience. Sorry it's not up to your standards.
 
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tubman said:
Yes. Non-synchronous transmission. I put it in neutral when the engine died to try to restart it. Try putting a non-synchromesh transmission back in gear sometime when the engine is not running and the vehicle is moving. All I am trying to do here is to add to the discussion from my experience. Sorry it's not up to your standards.
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Has nothing to do with my standards. The "non-synchronized" trans answers my query. That's why I asked about possibly "missing something"! DD
 
Thanks Guys!

I come from the Hot Rod side of things where we would always shoot for a conversion to juice brakes. The mechanical brakes work fine right now especially for parade type activity but we do plan to venture out a little to neighboring towns. Good thing is that we can skate along the backroads and keep the speeds at a normal pace vs trying to survive on the modern-day autobahn we call freeways! LOL...

We are definitely not sold on the concept of changing them but rather more inquisitive of what it takes TO change them. Early Ford mech passenger car brakes are a well known swap with anything '37 on up, so I wondered if the larger trucks had a similar situation? I.E., can we take the brakes from a 1940 chassis and bolt on the backing plates, use the drums, etc?

The one item that sticks out the most in the comments is the liability associated with switching brake systems and what it might lead to should there be some sort of an accident etc. It's that reason alone that would cause me to pause and not pursue the swap of parts.

Best Regards,

RM
 
Neat truck. When I had my Ford dealership in Iowa I was at a county fire meeting in Hartley Iowa. They had a 1936 Ford open cab fire truck that I think they had from new. They said they were having a rough time starting it and they thought it should be switched to 12V and a SBC put in because the old Ford engines were no good. Talk about waving a red flag in front of a bull! I told them they were full of crap and to bring it down to my dealership and we will fix it. Sure enough with two or three hours work it started great.
 
1942deluxe said:
Neat truck. When I had my Ford dealership in Iowa I was at a county fire meeting in Hartley Iowa. They had a 1936 Ford open cab fire truck that I think they had from new. They said they were having a rough time starting it and they thought it should be switched to 12V and a SBC put in because the old Ford engines were no good. Talk about waving a red flag in front of a bull! I told them they were full of crap and to bring it down to my dealership and we will fix it. Sure enough with two or three hours work it started great.
Click to expand...

This touches on the reason why many if not most modified cars become modified in the first place. Not to be different, not to show off, not to go faster, but just because the owner doesn't know from Shinola on how to work on his car or how to find someone who does.
 
ford38v8 said:
This touches on the reason why many if not most modified cars become modified in the first place. Not to be different, not to show off, not to go faster, but just because the owner doesn't know from Shinola on how to work on his car or how to find someone who does.
Click to expand...

Hmmm...... "Doesn't know from Shinola"! I LIKE THAT!! DD
 
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