1934 Spark/ Ignition Issue

[Steve Staysko]

Send an old condenser to Bubbas Ignition and have him build you a Vertex Mag "lifetime" condenser modified to fit a 34 helmet distributor also send Skip your coil and have him modernized it and your problems will go away.

 

[Bob C]

Ok so here is the update: purchased a NAPA FA5 this morning and added a grounding wire to go to the frame. The width of the condenser is smaller than the one I took out. The car still won’t start up.

When you mention “check the coil” what are you referring to. I know the points and individual “coils” that go to each spark plug. I’m still leaning towards no spark. When my brother hits the starter my continuity test at each plug shows nothing.


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How can you check continuity at the plug? Hold the plug wire 1/4" from the head and see if you have a spark or use a spark checker.

 

[deuce lover]

dbtenner,Is this distributor what you have on your engine?

 

[rotorwrench]

A condenser is basically a capacitor. You have to have sophisticated test equipment to test one for capacity, leakage, etc. The FA5 is usable but may take some mods to make it fit the old distributor. A person can check it for build of charge and discharge as previously mentioned. If that function is OK and it is installed where it will function with the distributor, it should have spark at a plug high tension lead. If it doesn't, the coil needs to be tested but it also needs sophisticated equipment to properly test it.

You can remotely mount a condenser of the correct capacity range to about any distributor but it has to be connected as shown in wiring diagrams for points ignition distributors. It's usually better if it is grounded as close as possible to the breaker points or coil.

 

[dbtenner]

Hi all,

Thank you for help troubleshooting! I appreciate it. Few updates:

I checked the leads on the ignition switch and had a nice healthy spark (also tried to start the engine with both leads connected and still no spark). Also cleaned the connections inside the ignition switch enclosure. So I don't think the issue is here.

Deuce_lover, Yes, that is the exact distributor and coil (black enclosure with a holder for the condenser) I have! I checked the input post on the coil (wired to the cab) with my voltmeter and I'm reading 0.0V both when the ignition switch is open and closed. So I'm thinking the issue might be electrical at the dash.

I also took my ohmmeter and checked the condensers (both my original 18-12300-B and the replacement one I found this morning, FA5 from NAPA) and I could "charge" it with the meter and then switch the leads and read a change in resistance (I have a digital multimeter that actually works now). I understand that this doesn't completely rule out the condenser but I'm thinking that the issue might lie somewhere else. Any input is greatly appreciated, thanks!

One more question: The coil (black enclosure on top of the distributor) doesn't have that many connections (I did take it off just now). It has a holder for the condensor with a screw to connect, a post for a wire coming from the dash, a spring that makes contact with a copper plate inside the distributor, and a metal plunger that makes contact with the rotor inside the distributor. How do I test the coil with this configuration?

Thanks, and happy holidays! I might include photos in a minute!
-Dbtenner

 

[dbtenner]

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[dbtenner]

The photos above: 1) I think the issue might be here under the dash because I'm not reading any voltage at the screw post on the coil when the ignition switch is closed. Is the white cylinder inside the metal holder the resistor? I can check its resistance in a bit.

2) Here is the coil on top of the distributor. You see my feeble attempt at grounding the FA5 condenser with a wire in the background.

Thank you guys for all your help. I really appreciate it!
-dbtenner

 

[petehoovie]

You have a wrong style condenser,,,, The bad connection to the condenser you have is glaring....

 

[deuce lover]

Hi all,

Thank you for help troubleshooting! I appreciate it. Few updates:

I checked the leads on the ignition switch and had a nice healthy spark (also tried to start the engine with both leads connected and still no spark). Also cleaned the connections inside the ignition switch enclosure. So I don't think the issue is here.

Deuce_lover, Yes, that is the exact distributor and coil (black enclosure with a holder for the condenser) I have! I checked the input post on the coil (wired to the cab) with my voltmeter and I'm reading 0.0V both when the ignition switch is open and closed. So I'm thinking the issue might be electrical at the dash.

I also took my ohmmeter and checked the condensers (both my original 18-12300-B and the replacement one I found this morning, FA5 from NAPA) and I could "charge" it with the meter and then switch the leads and read a change in resistance (I have a digital multimeter that actually works now). I understand that this doesn't completely rule out the condenser but I'm thinking that the issue might lie somewhere else. Any input is greatly appreciated, thanks!

One more question: The coil (black enclosure on top of the distributor) doesn't have that many connections (I did take it off just now). It has a holder for the condensor with a screw to connect, a post for a wire coming from the dash, a spring that makes contact with a copper plate inside the distributor, and a metal plunger that makes contact with the rotor inside the distributor. How do I test the coil with this configuration?

Thanks, and happy holidays! I might include photos in a minute!
-Dbtenner

On my first pic you see the the terminal(post) with the round nut and the screw that attaches the condenser to the coil. For a basic test to check for continuity ,Take your tester and put one on that terminal and the other in where that screw is(if screw is out there is a metal terminal that the condenser butts up to).You should get a reading and if so it means that it is closed (current thru the windings and out)so coil should initially work.Going to the copper spring type coil (under and carbon brush) will not tell you anything.

 

[petehoovie]

 

[Bob C]

I think you just need to start tracing our your system. Do you have power to the ignition switch, power out of the switch, power to the resistor, power out of the resistor. power to the coil.

 

[rotorwrench]

That white cylindrical item with two red wires connected in post 26 photo 1 is the ballast resistor. They are a wire wound around a high temp insulator. It should have power in from the ignition switch and power out to the coil. These little jewels are still around NOS in case it no longer passes current. The reproduction ones are crap.

The one side of the breaker points and condenser are grounded to the distributor housing so all it needs to power it up is the wire from the ballast resistor under the dash. The Ford/Mallory design is about as simple as they get but it is a way lot different than one from say a 65 Mustang. Works the same basic way in theory.

 

[tubman]

Why not run a jumper wire from a known good voltage source (starter solenoid?) to the coil terminal and try to start it. That should isolate it to either the primary or secondary side. Don't leave it on too long or you could damage your points and/ot coil. (If it starts or even fires, it's the primary side. If it does nothing, it would be the secondary side. In this case the primary could be bad also.)

 

[MGG]

I had a similar problem last summer. I was getting intermittent power to the coil. The problem turned out to be a broken wire from the resister to the coil. I replaced the wire and the problem was solved.

 

[TerryOH]

Once you find your problem and have the engine running may I suggest you find a Ford coil as shown in deuce lover photos and have it rebuilt by Skip or send your entire distributor, coil and condenser to Skip or Bubba for rebuild. Remove the resistor under the dash and turn it around so heat generated by the resistor does not fry the wires to the resistor. Clean all the hardware and connection points used to mount the resistor before reinstalling. These simple projects should keep the ignition system in better working shape. A 6 volt ignition system does not work well with loose, rusted and corroded hardware.

 

[JSeery]

The image of the fuse block is not original to a 34, that is a later model panel out of something like a 40. The original fuse block would have a fuse, the one posted is a circuit breaker, as used on the later models.

The first photo I attached is similar to what would have been in the car originally. The second post is a later single circuit breaker panel (with the ballast resistor turned the correct way).

You are dealing with a mix match set of components, which should work fine, but it will not match up visually with the original parts.


Is the starter solenoid floor mounted with foot operated switch on it or a firewall mounted which uses a pushbutton on the dash?

 

[dbtenner]

Hi all,

Thank you for the suggestions! I appreciate them. Quick update: I spoke to deuce_lover on the phone and we did some troubleshooting. The ignition switch is functioning properly AND I am seeing 3.5V at the coil. I tested the coil for continuity and it is closed, so it's fine. The condenser is the wrong type (A-12300-SP, for 1928-1931, same as the FA5 from NAPA), BUT I improved the grounding to the engine block (using a jerry-rigged screwdriver instead of the thin copper wire) AND THE CAR STARTED AND RAN! When I removed the grounding screwdriver, the car promptly died. So, as many of y'all suggested (thank you!), I do believe the issue is the condenser. Now I'm looking all over for a NOS proper 18-12300-B condenser, but I don't think they're made anymore... In the mean time, I'm going to try and twist the ground connector on the wrong capacitor and drill the hole larger so I can fasten the ground to the engine block. Any suggestions are appreciated! If the old 18-12300-B condenser isn't being produced anymore, is there another that you guys use/recommend?

Thanks! And thank you deuce_lover for trouble-shooting!
-dbtenner

 

[Charlie ny]

Condenser is on the way.
Charlie ny

 

[dbtenner]

Thanks Charlie! I appreciate this community here.



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[tubman]

Good! Glad to hear you got it going. "All's well that ends well".