1934 Front Wheel Alignment ?

[tomkc1]

Here is question for all you front end people.

I'm going to try to post a photo of the two front wheels of my '34 Ford. If you can see what I hope you can see, you will see that the left wheel is heading straight ahead while the right wheel is aiming to the left (toward the right wheel). Looking at it "live" from my driveway the difference is very noticeable but I'm not sure I've captured the difference in the photo.

So, is this simply an alignment issue or is it something more serious?

I know from previous posts that some think the job of aligning the wheels is not that difficult. I don't think I want to tackle it. Is this something that a good tire shop should be able to handle?

All comments appreciated.

Tom

 

[David J]

Your car has too much toe-in and needs that re-set . Proper setting is 1/8 " to 1/16" in . This means the dimension between the front tires in front should that much narrower than the dimension between them in the rear . A simple way to get this right is jack up the front and scribe a line in the tire as you spin it . Not real important where this is as you are after the dimension between and this way is sure to give true centerline . Simple stuff as the toe is really all you can adjust anyway without major bending equipment .

 

[DICK SPADARO]

This is a simple job that any backyard mechanic can do. The tie rod on this vehicle is either bent or out of adjustment. To straighten this out is a simple task requiring a few tools and a tape measure.
First, procedure is to jack the car front up and place on jack stands.

Second, remove the tie rod from the driver side spindle.

Third, loosen both the tie rod end clamps and adjust the tie rod ends so they have a matching count of threads exposed.

Four, using a small carpenter square or small right angle guide square the front spindles to the axle so the tires point directly ahead.

Five, hook up the tie rod to the spindle by adjusting the span of the tie rod to match the span of the spindle steering arm holes and connect the tie rod. Do not tighten clamps.

Six, as suggested before take a small screw driver and a block. Using the block as a mount and a screw driver as a scribe, spin the tire so that the screw driver end produces a mark on the center tire tread all the way around the tire. Do both tires.

Seven, jack the car up, remove stands. place it on the ground and carefully lightly jump on the bumper to settle the chassis. Using your tape measure measure the scribed line span at the front face of the tire and then again 180* opposite on the rear side of the tire and compare the measurements. The reading you get should show that the front measurement is 1/16" to 1/8" smaller than the rear measurement. If it is not slide under the car and turn the tie rod shaft in or out to change the tire angle.Lengthening the tie rod span increases the toe in, shortening the tie rod span creates a toe out condition. Do not roll car or turn the steering wheel. Remeasure to achieve the correct toe distance. This may take one or two tries to get it correct.

Seven, after you have achieved the correct toe adjustment jack the car back up and on jack stands, tighten the tie rod clamps. When clamps are tight jack the car up and remove the stands. Set it down and you should be good to go.

 

[ford38v8]

Dick has given very good instructions, but I have a couple of tips to make the job go smooth and accurately:

The scribe line on the tires obviously must be extremely accurate. I use white chalk, followed by afine line on the chalk with an ink pen in a jig to hold it steady.

For the measurement, a 2x4 laid flat on the ground, risers at each end, one having a pointer, the other having a 6" rule, both fastened solidly at the same height halfway up the tires.

 

[Mart]

Good descriptions above, but I would suggest one difference. You SHOULD roll the car back a little and forward again to let the new setting settle in. Just a few feet is enough. Plus a little hint: An old newspaper acts as a low friction turntable, one under each wheel will make it easier to make an adjustment.

Mart.

 

[JLB3]

Just food for thought here…I’m an engineer and tend to over-analyze everything. Tire size will have a SLIGHT effect on your toe out measurement. All in all, if you have excessively large or small tires you may want to look further into your toe out measurement. There wouldn't be much concern if you stay close to the standard tire sizes.

Example:
550-16 Tires @ 1/8” toe will result in ~0.25 degrees of toe out
600-16 Tires @ 1/8” toe will result in ~0.27 degrees of toe out

 

[ford38v8]

JLB3, First, you want toe-in, not toe-out. Second, the 1/16" - 1/8" adjustment was close enough for horseshoes back in the day, and I believe those instructions applied to 17" as well as 16" tires, and probably even 18" tires. Maybe you can convert your analysis from angles to inches for us? I know some guys prefer more toe-in than others, so your over-analyzing may come in handy to someone?

 

[tomkc1]

As a follow up to this previous question, I was able to get the toe in/tow out where it should be but the wheels still looked "off" as in the photo. My local mechanic says the camber needs to be adjusted. He doesn't have a machine to do it and doesn't know anyone who could do it in the area. We live in the boondocks by the way.

How do I find a competent front end shop who can do the job? If anyone knows of a shop in the Deland, FL area I'd love to find out the name.

Thanks, Tom

 

[Mart]

The camber can only be adjusted by bending the axle. Unless it really is miles off and causing problems, fuggeddaboutit. Just get the toe-in right and drive it.

Mart.

 

[DICK SPADARO]

Doubtful that your camber is off. If the tires tip out equally at the top they are correct, if they tip in then there is a problem

 

[FlatheadTed]

This is all I have ever done ,with the wheels on the ground .take a tape measure and attach it left of the centre treed ,then on the same position on the other wheel ,mark it with tape .go to the rear of the wheels and do the same up against the wish bone ,loosen the lock nut & bolt (pict one) and turn the tie rod with a pipe wrench keep measuring until you have about 3/32 toe in .this doesn't alter any pitman arm angles .You can check any camber left to right variation with the spirit level .I have driven hundreds of miles after setting it up this way .

 

[ford38v8]

Ted, with all due respect, just spin any tire/wheel and you'll see why the marked centerline is advisable: No tire I've ever seen will show the tread to spin true. The combined wobble in the treads can easily be enough to make your efforts produce a toe-out instead of a toe-in condition.

I like Mart's suggestion of using newspaper to reduce the friction against the floor. The old shops actually used turntables under each wheel.

 

[FlatheadTed]

OK as a precaution you can mark the front of the tyre and the back ,then roll the car forward so the marks are interchanged then re measure .If you are not confident on the quality of your tires then you may not be able to do it this way.

 

[ford38v8]

Ted, as a precaution? What's so difficult about doing it right by marking a line while the wheel turns? I'm not sure you understand how simple and accurate the procedure is:
Jack up the front end to allow the wheels to spin freely.
Mark a fine line around the tires by whatever method: (I use chalk followed by an ink pen.)
Lower and remove the jack, wheels must now support the car.
Measure half way up the tires at front and back.
Make your adjustment.

 

[FlatheadTed]

Alan I under stand , There's not a lot difference in your method and mine ,I am sure it works for you , I think marking the tyre presents some challenges .On the tread method you can measure in mutable places around the tyre if you want .

 

[funrunr]

I like ford38v8's idea of chalk. When I was working on semi-trucks we used a very similar method. We would use white spray paint and spin the wheel while spraying, immediately followed by a block of wood with a framing nail completely through a 2X4 and bent over. We would again spin the wheel and lightly touch the tire with the tip of the bent nail. This was a very accurate line to take measurements from.

 

[sortkaffekop]

Simple:

I have been advised to adjust parallel.

And done it simply by aligning via a long board, hold sidevise on to both rear and front wheel (tires).

Christian

 

[Mart]

Simple:

I have been advised to adjust parallel.

And done it simply by aligning via a long board, hold sidevise on to both rear and front wheel (tires).

Christian

That's enough to get a car rolling, but really they should be toe'd in slightly as per Ford specs.

This is really one wheel it isn't worth re-inventing.

Mart.