FrankWest
Well-known member
Thanks for you info, you were a great help.
Did you have to detach the wishbone to get the pan to drop?
1933 model b oil pan drop
- Thread starter FrankWest
- Start date
Thanks for you info, you were a great help.
Did you have to detach the wishbone to get the pan to drop?
DavidG
Well-known member
Frank,
In your photos of a Model B pan, the tray mentioned in one of the posts is missing. You will burn out your rod bearings if you operate the engine without that tray in place. (The same tray was used in most Model A oil pans.) Perhaps you already know all that and if so, please excuse the overkill.
In your photos of a Model B pan, the tray mentioned in one of the posts is missing. You will burn out your rod bearings if you operate the engine without that tray in place. (The same tray was used in most Model A oil pans.) Perhaps you already know all that and if so, please excuse the overkill.
rbullockv8
Senior Member
Frank, the weight of the car pushes down on the front axle and tries to twist it forward at the bottom. This puts more tension on the ball end of the wishbone, making it want to go down so the axle can rotate out at the bottom. If you put your jack stands under the front frame (instead of the axle), this takes weight off the front axle and keeps the ball end of the wishbone from popping down with force when the bolts are removed.
As mentioned above, buy a new rubber ball to go over the wishbone steel ball when you reassemble. A little dish detergent on the rubber will help it slip on--it's a pretty tight fit.
You might have to use a small jack to help lift the wishbone ball back up into its socket when you get ready to reassemble the cap and bolts.
Since you're partway there, I think you have a good plan to clean out the oil pan. Since the B usually didn't have an oil filter, a lot of crud settles down there.
Finally, to everyone reading this thread: Time to take a chill pill. Emails, texts, and forums are TERRIBLE ways to communicate in that it's difficult to read emotion from bare words. Words come across as insulting when they aren't meant that way. And we should work hard not to get into a negative cycle of communications. Let's keep it positive, do our best to help each other, and quietly move on if we don't get along with someone.
Personally, I'm interested to see what's in the bottom of the oil pan. I just pulled a 12X12 inch shop rag out of my gas tank when I cleaned it. Who knows how long that's been in there!
As mentioned above, buy a new rubber ball to go over the wishbone steel ball when you reassemble. A little dish detergent on the rubber will help it slip on--it's a pretty tight fit.
You might have to use a small jack to help lift the wishbone ball back up into its socket when you get ready to reassemble the cap and bolts.
Since you're partway there, I think you have a good plan to clean out the oil pan. Since the B usually didn't have an oil filter, a lot of crud settles down there.
Finally, to everyone reading this thread: Time to take a chill pill. Emails, texts, and forums are TERRIBLE ways to communicate in that it's difficult to read emotion from bare words. Words come across as insulting when they aren't meant that way. And we should work hard not to get into a negative cycle of communications. Let's keep it positive, do our best to help each other, and quietly move on if we don't get along with someone.
Personally, I'm interested to see what's in the bottom of the oil pan. I just pulled a 12X12 inch shop rag out of my gas tank when I cleaned it. Who knows how long that's been in there!
FrankWest
Well-known member
Frank, the weight of the car pushes down on the front axle and tries to twist it forward at the bottom. This puts more tension on the ball end of the wishbone, making it want to go down so the axle can rotate out at the bottom. If you put your jack stands under the front frame (instead of the axle), this takes weight off the front axle and keeps the ball end of the wishbone from popping down with force when the bolts are removed.
As mentioned above, buy a new rubber ball to go over the wishbone steel ball when you reassemble. A little dish detergent on the rubber will help it slip on--it's a pretty tight fit.
You might have to use a small jack to help lift the wishbone ball back up into its socket when you get ready to reassemble the cap and bolts.
Since you're partway there, I think you have a good plan to clean out the oil pan. Since the B usually didn't have an oil filter, a lot of crud settles down there.
Finally, to everyone reading this thread: Time to take a chill pill. Emails, texts, and forums are TERRIBLE ways to communicate in that it's difficult to read emotion from bare words. Words come across as insulting when they aren't meant that way. And we should work hard not to get into a negative cycle of communications. Let's keep it positive, do our best to help each other, and quietly move on if we don't get along with someone.
Personally, I'm interested to see what's in the bottom of the oil pan. I just pulled a 12X12 inch shop rag out of my gas tank when I cleaned it. Who knows how long that's been in there!
Thanks for thoughtful and sober words of wisdom
I will move my jack stand. I am a retired physicist, worked as a spacecraft power system engineer for Hughes Aircraft Company. But I am just learning about cars, so I appreciate the helpful people on this forum. I sent for the ford service manual for 1932 to 1940. I can learn as long as I have something to study, the last thing I want is a car falling on me.
So will the jack stand under the front frame the front end will just hang there, and when I remove the wishbone nuts, won't the weight of free dangling front end make it hard to lower the wishbone? I will try it and thanks a great deal for you assistance. This car means a lot to me.
Thanks again
rbullockv8
Senior Member
I think the wishbone will still try to move lower. I bolted mine up recently with just the bare chassis (no engine or body), and the ball end hung down about 6-8". But, as you said, just play with the weight on the front axle/tires and see what works. At least with the jack stands in place you'll make it far less spring-loaded.
Frank, there is what we would consider a certain "responsibility of stewardship" in owning and operating an original early Ford. Any idiot can butcher one up to make one of those easter egg looking abominations you see at the car shows with garbage truck engines. This happens all too often and lots of rare cars are just cut up and never finished. You have a truly rare car being it is still in one piece and a 4cyl. I would suggest obtaining the following excellent references: EV8 club 34 book, 32-37 Ford service bulletins, The early v8 Ford as Henry Built It, Early v8 Ford Service Manual,(a Victor Page reprint by Clymer), an original 32-6 Ford Chassis Parts book (if you can find it), if not either an original or copy of the 28-48 Ford Chassis Parts Book know as the Green Bible. All of these will give you good illustrations of parts and good information. You will find a wealth of interchange info there also, some apparent (that would detract from the original appearance) and some not apparent. Good luck with your Ford!
DavidG
Well-known member
Jim,
With respect, I believe that he would benefit more from the '28-'34 chassis parts catalogue rather than the '28-'36 version given that he has a '33. The later the catalogue, the less it contains regarding the original production parts, especially for four bangers. Both turn up regurlarly on ebay. The 1948 parts catalogue is that much more diminished in value when addressing early fours and V-8s if the objective is maintaining originality given that it is a catalogue of service parts, not production parts.
With respect, I believe that he would benefit more from the '28-'34 chassis parts catalogue rather than the '28-'36 version given that he has a '33. The later the catalogue, the less it contains regarding the original production parts, especially for four bangers. Both turn up regurlarly on ebay. The 1948 parts catalogue is that much more diminished in value when addressing early fours and V-8s if the objective is maintaining originality given that it is a catalogue of service parts, not production parts.
Brendan
Well-known member
yes I did , for a V8 I had to take off a lot of parts. I only had my car on 2 jack stands. and the ones in front where on the frame rail as close as I could get them you need to get the weight off the front end. also I had the front wheels off, loused the u bolts that hold the axle to the frame. then unbolted the wishbone, and pulled it down as far as I could. I wedge a 2buy 6 or a 2 buy 4 in between the wish bone and the frame. any time you put your car on jack stands shake it good, to make sure that it dose not fall. and be sure to have good quality stands...Brendan
FrankWest
Well-known member
I have some of these books and others being shipped.
I noticed that the wishbone and the front end tie rod are in the way of dropping the pan.
Can the pan be dropped by taking the tie rod off only for clearance?
This seems like a less problematic job than the wishbone!
DavidG
Well-known member
Frank,
Not likely as you have to drop the pan far enough down for the oil pump to be clear of the tray inside the oil pan and also to clear the bottom of the flywheel at the back of the pan. The tie rod interference can be eliminated by turning the steering wheel to either extreme which has the effect of moving the tie rod forward relative to the front of the oil pan.
Not likely as you have to drop the pan far enough down for the oil pump to be clear of the tray inside the oil pan and also to clear the bottom of the flywheel at the back of the pan. The tie rod interference can be eliminated by turning the steering wheel to either extreme which has the effect of moving the tie rod forward relative to the front of the oil pan.
Mart
Well-known member
Frank, you are possibly overthinking/overworrying the job.
Jack up under the axle, axle stands under the sides of the frame, release the axle so it's hanging (You could have it so the wheels are just touching the ground) , then undo the wishbone cup and lower the wishbone. You might have to either lever it down, or lower it using a jack.
The easiest way to get the drag link out of the way is to take out the splitpin and remove the end cap from one of the tie rod ends. this will allow the ball to drop out of the tie rod end. The other end could remain in place and be swivelled out of the way.
Have a new replacement ball to hand so you can fit it when the wishbone gets refitted.
You could have it all down, pan off, cleaned, refitted and the suspension all buttoned back up in an easy day.
You just need to get stuck in and have a go.
There's nothing that could happen that we could not explain how to get it right again.
Just make sure the stands are steady, like said, give the car a shake before going under it.
Mart.
Jack up under the axle, axle stands under the sides of the frame, release the axle so it's hanging (You could have it so the wheels are just touching the ground) , then undo the wishbone cup and lower the wishbone. You might have to either lever it down, or lower it using a jack.
The easiest way to get the drag link out of the way is to take out the splitpin and remove the end cap from one of the tie rod ends. this will allow the ball to drop out of the tie rod end. The other end could remain in place and be swivelled out of the way.
Have a new replacement ball to hand so you can fit it when the wishbone gets refitted.
You could have it all down, pan off, cleaned, refitted and the suspension all buttoned back up in an easy day.
You just need to get stuck in and have a go.
There's nothing that could happen that we could not explain how to get it right again.
Just make sure the stands are steady, like said, give the car a shake before going under it.
Mart.
FrankWest
Well-known member
The wheels would have tio turn 90 degrees to get the bar fully out of the way!
FrankWest
Well-known member
Great info.....
Thanks
FrankWest
Well-known member
Is that the Radius Rod Bushing "Rubber Ball"? you mentioned?
I think mine has never been replaced... original steel ball, I guess
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DavidG
Well-known member
Frank,
You won't need to get the spindle tie rod completely out of the way, which is actually a good thing as unattaching the spindle tie rod on either end isn't usually quite as easy as described above. You might get lucky and be able to undo one of the tie rod end ball studs and move the tie rod out of the way. Based on my experience with a lot of them, even with the right puller those ball studs' tapered fit do not come free of the spindle end willingly. If you cannot remove one of the ball studs without destroying the threads, the other option is to remove the end plug as cited above. The problem with this alternative is that isn't enough clearance between the end plugs and the backing plates of the front brakes. That entails removing the one of the front backing plates. It's a classic example of what seems like a simple fifteen minute job that turns out to require three or four hours to accomplish, just like countless others when it comes to working on old cars.
Dropping the front axle wishbone at the center cross member and turning the wheels to their limit will get the job done.
You won't need to get the spindle tie rod completely out of the way, which is actually a good thing as unattaching the spindle tie rod on either end isn't usually quite as easy as described above. You might get lucky and be able to undo one of the tie rod end ball studs and move the tie rod out of the way. Based on my experience with a lot of them, even with the right puller those ball studs' tapered fit do not come free of the spindle end willingly. If you cannot remove one of the ball studs without destroying the threads, the other option is to remove the end plug as cited above. The problem with this alternative is that isn't enough clearance between the end plugs and the backing plates of the front brakes. That entails removing the one of the front backing plates. It's a classic example of what seems like a simple fifteen minute job that turns out to require three or four hours to accomplish, just like countless others when it comes to working on old cars.
Dropping the front axle wishbone at the center cross member and turning the wheels to their limit will get the job done.
FrankWest
Well-known member
Thanks....
I am getting ready,,
I greatly appreciate you help... I will leave the tie rod alone....
Everything looks in great shape but I aggree with you taking it apart after 80 years anything can happen.